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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Why disscussing right and wrong is wrong. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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jdmagic357
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So the "discussion" is just a sounding board of personal opinions with no real collective. Whats right for one will be wrong for the other, so without consensus the point winds up moot.

The "discussion" also digresses into a judgment call on ones personality which may not have any basis in reality. As ones beliefs is guided by ones own experiences. So to judge without have come from the same background scues the judgment.

In light of these facts, I propose the elimination of this forum. Wouldn't that be the right thing to do? Just asking.
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2011-05-04 03:24, jdmagic357 wrote:

In light of these facts, I propose the elimination of this forum. Wouldn't that be the right thing to do? Just asking.



No.

You are wrong imo...

I disagree, with all that I have learnt from experience.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Michael Daniels
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Quote:
On 2011-05-04 03:24, jdmagic357 wrote:
So the "discussion" is just a sounding board of personal opinions with no real collective. Whats right for one will be wrong for the other, so without consensus the point winds up moot.

The "discussion" also digresses into a judgment call on ones personality which may not have any basis in reality. As ones beliefs is guided by ones own experiences. So to judge without have come from the same background scues the judgment.

In light of these facts, I propose the elimination of this forum. Wouldn't that be the right thing to do? Just asking.


You are suggesting that moral relativism is an absolute truth - which is self-contradictory.

Mike
Jonathan Townsend
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And given that most here don't (either own up to or actually) believe in magic, perhaps it would be better to close up the Café too?

So what's magical for you some may be right for others. And what's abusive to some might be wrong for most.

Discuss or disgust?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Pakar Ilusi
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Discuss, all the way.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
jdmagic357
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Quote:
On 2011-05-04 05:24, Michael Daniels wrote:
You are suggesting that moral relativism is an absolute truth - which is self-contradictory.
Mike


Can we at least agree that the concepts of right and wrong are subjective?
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2011-05-04 18:21, jdmagic357 wrote:...
Can we at least agree that the concepts of right and wrong are subjective?


As long as we also agree that we need to be careful about defining the context within which we wish to use the terms - okay they are subjective (and contextual).
...to all the coins I've dropped here
HerbLarry
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I hear ya JD. I don't agree, but I hear ya. It is pointless most of the time.

Man: Oh look, this isn't an argument.

Mr Vibrating: Yes it is.

Man: No it isn't. It's just contradiction.

Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

Man: It is!

Mr Vibrating: It is not.

Man: Look, you just contradicted me.

Mr Vibrating: I did not.

Man: Oh you did!!

Mr Vibrating: No, no, no.

Man: You did just then.

Mr Vibrating: Nonsense!

Man: Oh, this is futile!

Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

Man: I came here for a good argument.

Mr Vibrating: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
You know why don't act naive.
Jonathan Townsend
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Things one uses to help children or exercise control don't tend to scale well into adult discourse.

If you go with stated values and contexts you can then refer to things like "fair/equitable" <=> "if that were me I'd feel it was okay too" or appeal to different scales of values in context, say where one might choose to put out a fire in one's home before writing an email to a friend to ask about some future event though both are "good things to do".
...to all the coins I've dropped here
idomagic
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Huh? Really? People have time for this? And for this so well thought out discourse... Sad, so very sad Smile
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2011-05-04 22:53, idomagic wrote:
Huh? Really? People have time for this? And for this so well thought out discourse... Sad, so very sad Smile


Philosophy anyone? Thousands of years of it.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
J-Mac
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Love that sketch BTW, HerbLarry!

Jim
HerbLarry
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On 2011-05-10 02:27, J-Mac wrote:
Love that sketch BTW, HerbLarry!

Jim


No you don't!
You know why don't act naive.
Steve_Mollett
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There's nothing wrong with discussing right and wrong.
Humanity has done so for ages.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
jdmagic357
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On 2011-05-10 19:29, Steve_Mollett wrote:
There's nothing wrong with discussing right and wrong.
Humanity has done so for ages.


Just because people have done something for time and memorial, doesn't make it right. Can anybody remember slavery, and how long it's practice was condoned?

Bad argument.
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
Jonathan Townsend
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The notions of right and wrong are social constructs.
It is a part of social (ethos/morals/evolution) to decide and discuss what they will hold as right and wrong.
And it's an ongoing discussion.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
captain10
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Quote:
On 2011-05-10 20:55, jdmagic357 wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-10 19:29, Steve_Mollett wrote:
There's nothing wrong with discussing right and wrong.
Humanity has done so for ages.


Just because people have done something for time and memorial, doesn't make it right. Can anybody remember slavery, and how long it's practice was condoned?

Bad argument.


There is a huge difference between the discussion of something and the practice of it. The failure to openly discuss or acknowledge something can and does lead to bigger problems.
jdmagic357
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Quote:
On 2011-05-10 23:02, captain10 wrote:
There is a huge difference between the discussion of something and the practice of it. The failure to openly discuss or acknowledge something can and does lead to bigger problems.



No doubt. But surly time would never be the measure, of what's right or wrong? Except to argue "thems the times we live in" and I don't perceive it a good argument.

The rebuttal of course being "but the times they be a changing". If you see my point?
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
Michael Daniels
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Quote:
On 2011-05-04 18:21, jdmagic357 wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-04 05:24, Michael Daniels wrote:
You are suggesting that moral relativism is an absolute truth - which is self-contradictory.
Mike


Can we at least agree that the concepts of right and wrong are subjective?


Yes, concepts of right and wrong are subjective, but that does not mean that every subjective view is equally valid. Hitler believed that it was right to murder millions in the pursuit of an ideal of Aryan purity and supremacy but that does not make his view just as "good" as, say, a belief that all persons are created equal, or a commitment to universal justice. Moral philosophy aims to explore the ways in which we can judge some views of right and wrong as better than others. Not all moral philosophers agree on everything, but very few would argue that Hitler's moral views are just as acceptable as those of Martin Luther King.

Mike
jdmagic357
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Mike, I agree with everything you said and see the argument clearly. However, and understand that my view on this issue is equal to yours, I would contend that to those who participated in the atrocities of the second world war, would have believed and to this day possibly believe that their actions were right.

Subjectively it seemed like a solution to a problem, in fact the final solution.

Again, I in no way shape or form think that their actions were right and in fact see them as wrong but that is my subjective view and has nothing to do with what in fact IS right and wrong.

The other problem with discussions that limit ones responses to absolutes, is that the middle ground has no foundation to stand on, there by forcing an all or nothing kind of debate. With no room for the gray areas how can an intelligent debate and or argument be formed?

I'm not being difficult or playing devils advocate, although I do sometimes, I'm seriously concerned about the topic, and it's ramifications as it relates to our sense of omnipotence in the magic community.
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
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