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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Magic is when you shred the papers that went nowhere to make room on the shelf for those which will lead somewhere. Using magic with intent ... well you could sprinkle a few of those shreds here and there...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-07 16:13, stoneunhinged wrote: lol.. I know you did... and being the guy I am, I took it right down to the gutter! Sorry, it all just made me laugh and I couldn't help it! Quote:
On 2011-06-07 18:31, Jonathan Townsend wrote: See... this is why I love coming on here! In the midst of chaos, there are really great guys on here that are passionate about the art (I can't believe I let the "a" word slip in!) as well as the craft of magic. For me it isn't a selfish skill but it's about creating the gift of wonder and amazement in others. Is that art? I don't really care to put a name on it. Their reactions are all that fuels me.
Ray Pierce
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-07 02:48, Whit Haydn wrote: I beg of you all a thousand thousand pardons! Perhaps I did Max a disservice by paraphrasing the dust jacket of _Prism_ and not quoting it directly: "The New York Times observed that his 'category-defying mind-reading show veers into conceptual art.'" I hope that's better: "veers into" rather than "approaches"!
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
I say if you think it is Art, it is.
If you don't, it's not.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-07 19:16, Pakar Ilusi wrote: If we can change that second line to "If I don't then it's not" we can get to something salient: IMHO yes to the first - but no to the second after the willful act of declaration there is only "that work speaks to me in a way that ..."
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-07 19:16, Pakar Ilusi wrote: What if it's a story written in a language you don't understand? What if it's a painting and you're blind? What if it's a country song and you hate all country music?
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-07 19:40, Andrew Musgrave wrote: Then it is NOT Art, to You. What that matters to others, should matter only to them. Art is in the perception of what is Art. When you get a group of people coming together trying to govern and define it for others is where this issue becomes incredibly complicated. I don't think of planking as Art but if others wanna see it as Art, it is their life if they want to admire pictures of people lying stiff on things. Who am I to tell them that they should not perceive it as Art to them? A million people call nudes and erotica "Art" but millions more call it decadent, immoral and sin. Which is it to YOU? Believe in YOU to perceive what is Art to YOU is my point.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
Maybe there isn't actually anything called art. Maybe there are just varying productive crafts and craftsfolk producing items for varying purposes that are of varying degrees of quality. The higher the quality the greater the demand.
The craft of painting produced the Mona Lisa and also Elvis and Gambling dogs on black velvet. You would have to sell a WHOLE lot of Elvis on Velvets to make up the perceived value of one Mona Lisa.
Brad Burt
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-07 19:48, Pakar Ilusi wrote:... :( Whether a work (of art) speaks to you in a way that pleases you or even affects you at all is a distinct matter from whether a thing is a work of art. There is an act of will in the process and that's where things begin. It can be your will if you wish to produce art. If it's not your work - then all you can respectfully do is explore how it affects you. And yes that's one of the connections magic has to art. Can a copyist produce a work of art? See the Borges story about a guy who rewrote the Quixote word for word for a discussion on that topic.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-07 22:29, Jonathan Townsend wrote: That guy's version was absolutely the best! Made me want to rewrite it myself! Actually, my refuge from all the relativism is to maintain a lexicon of classifications, movements, schools of thought, genres, elements, techniques (and so on) which are the tools of more classical art criticism while at the same time enjoying the some of the subjective and experimental developments. The problem is that the classical scholars might call modernism/postmodernism a house of cards while modern theory would call classicism/neoclassicism a house of cards. The scaffolds errected on which to climb and call everything a house of cards, of course, can have no grounds either. Gee, I shouldn't even be writing...da da da da dadadadadadada...
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Alan - have a read of Peter Watt's Blindsight.
Then we can discuss what cards we want to use in our games.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
One online review of Blindsight uses the words "sleight-of-hand," "illusion," "dilemma," and "by design":
Quote: By design, he calls into question our assumptions about how viewpoint characters work. Siri's ability to "synthesize" the behaviour of his crewmates, for instance, is a brilliant fictional sleight-of-hand to evoke their differences, while masking his own. But he can only take us so far; indeed, any story, however well-told, can only take us so far, because language itself is inefficient, a work-around. Siri makes a point of telling us that what he's telling us isn't really what happened -- that his descriptions of the crew are only approximations, not least because in reality, the rest of the crew converse in a bricolage of half-a-dozen languages, using whatever words can best convey the concepts they need. Siri doesn't want to be unreliable, but he can't help it. And, as the book wears on, his privileged status as an unbiased observer is increasingly undermined. This shouldn't be a surprise: for a self-aware observer, any question about noninterference rapidly acquires a moral dimension. Peace of mind may be an illusion, but that doesn't make us want it any less.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Alan, kindly read the work - it's online for free and ... recommended.
citing online reviews in place of first hand experience is not a good sign of thorough analysis or considered opinion in general.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Hopes of future discussion and fears of reverse flattery play very little in my decision to order the book from Amazon. (I like science fiction of many kinds.)
The review was posted here for easy access to the subjects and themes dealt for the benefit of the present conversation. It's interesting that this "hard science fiction" novel seems to deal philosophy, psychology, theology, and theoretical metaphysics. The themes may relate to whether there is an objective and absolute basis for art, relativistic bases only, or a combination.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Peter Watts posted his novel online - but I'm sure Amazon appreciates the business.
Once you know about the training wheels you have some more options about what to roll, how to roll and ... if you are up for it - some avenues for rebuilding. Hint - not everybody is verbal. But your audiences for magic are all there none the less. And for the most part they all do enjoy the gift of some time away from primary concerns to be entertained/amused.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
For anyone besides me wonders what the science fiction novel has to do with art, here's a clip from the author's appendix:
Quote:
Norretranders declared outright that 'Consciousness is a fraud'115. I look forward to reading the novel off-screen, even though I believe that humans are a combination of the dust of the earth and the Breath of God. Thanks, Jon!
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Kindly ignore any religious issues piled upon the work by dolts - I would not ask anyone here to explore a tract which purports to diminish the significance of religion to all who have a notion of self.
Posted: Jun 10, 2011 10:40pm -------------------------------------- Folks, check out Blindsight - it's free online - and I'd like to contrast that with the notions of art in Larry Niven's book "Mote in God's Eye" where another alien culture makes use of art in a different (and socially positive way). so much to discuss - and we can do it without arguing against eachother. Let's explore together. What do you see as great examples of art in use by way of stories or examples? Jon
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
In Ray Bradbury's 1951 book _The Illustrated Man_, an ?artist? from the future tatoos a man with animations that tell stories involving technology and human nature.
Some musician friends of mine claim that a human drummer has better artistry than a drum machine, that the drum machine is too cold and too perfect!
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I don't understand how to put the term "drum machine" and artistry together if you mean just using it as a beat - while some folks have been doing amazing things with sampling and midi as part of their composing and performing process. When I saw David Bowie in 97 his drummer had also set up some of the percussion using that technology. Anyway I don't believe it's fair to put any form of art and mechanism into the same frame of reference, yet.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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