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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups & Balls – Does it Have A Place in Today’s Modern Magic Repertoire? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Stapper
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Cups & Balls – Does it Have A Place in Today’s Modern Magic Repertoire? Yes, sure!!!!!!!!!!!

- This week, Shawn Farquhar (a well known world champion) fooled us badly with his variation of the Cops & Balls!

- A week ago, a boy of 16 (!) years old (Rube van Tienen) won the first price Parlor Magic on the Dutch open Championships,
. yes, with a total surprising verion of the cups and balls !!!
. He dit it with McDonald Cups, they were invisible jumping! His humor,
. his handling, his routine, it was all great to see (16 years !!!)
. And at the end ... no, that's someting to see, not to reveal .......... pffff ..... 16 yeas ......

http://www.nmucongres.nl/index.php/wedstrijd-uitslagen.html
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2011-06-02 07:50, Bill Wood wrote:
Cups and Balls as a Sacred Cow.
*


I don't know what you mean by Sacred Cow.
I learned the term in Social Studies class in high school.
And also learned other aspects to the term when "you are what you eat" finally sunk in about social truths.

So what do you mean by the term?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
maxnew40
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I am thinking that the Cups and Balls is perfect for a renaissance/medieval show. Smile

-Max
Bill Palmer
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Speaking from a few years' experience in that particular field, I can say that there is no way that renaissance faires can be considered "mainstream" entertainment.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
MysticJohn
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My audience loves Cups and Balls and I perform it in many different settings, modern what does that really mean???
There is no are barrier either, kids to adults love this age old classic of magic. Learn it well and you'll use it all your life.

Cups and Balls will never get old, just us guys who perform it, lol
Ron Giesecke
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I believe a GOOD and WELL-PACED performance of the cups and balls is always in order.

I know that a brief YouTube sojourn is a painful thing in most cases. For as old as it is, it is the one routine where weaknesses leave one incredibly naked and exposed as a performer. I've seen people perform it at 100 MPH with (I presume) perfect hypersonic vanishes, rat-tat-tat patter and an audience suffering the frustration of Rain Man getting his baseball cards rearranged.

I've seen technically-perfect flushtration vetting of the cups at the introductory phase.

Yet, I'd immediately advise the one I've seen do these to leave the routine out of their act--because the synergy just isn't there.

The proliferate availability of the cups and balls seems to carry the assumption that, just because it rarely carries any new technological breakthrough, that it can simply be learned by rote means and then delievered in kind.

Seems to me the Houdini bromide still holds. No other routine really carries the kind of debate about its place, performance, permutations and anachronistic value as the cups and balls.
MysticJohn
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Quote:
On 2011-12-13 10:00, Ron Giesecke wrote:
I believe a GOOD and WELL-PACED performance of the cups and balls is always in order.

I know that a brief YouTube sojourn is a painful thing in most cases. For as old as it is, it is the one routine where weaknesses leave one incredibly naked and exposed as a performer. I've seen people perform it at 100 MPH with (I presume) perfect hypersonic vanishes, rat-tat-tat patter and an audience suffering the frustration of Rain Man getting his baseball cards rearranged.

I've seen technically-perfect flushtration vetting of the cups at the introductory phase.

Yet, I'd immediately advise the one I've seen do these to leave the routine out of their act--because the synergy just isn't there.

The proliferate availability of the cups and balls seems to carry the assumption that, just because it rarely carries any new technological breakthrough, that it can simply be learned by rote means and then delievered in kind.

Seems to me the Houdini bromide still holds. No other routine really carries the kind of debate about its place, performance, permutations and anachronistic value as the cups and balls.





Ron, LOL

"A hundred mile per hour", I know a guy that performed so fast and noisy, it was hilarious!

Not only did you not catch him, you didn't see what the hell was going on, lol
Bill Palmer
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You should watch John Mendoza's superfast routine sometime.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Pete Biro
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If the cups does not go over well...IT IS THE PERFORMER AT FAULT!
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
TheAmbitiousCard
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Please, please, please stay away from the classics. Perform all the new stuff and leave the classics alone!!!!
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate,
Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder.
Bill Palmer
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It's interesting that many tyros look at the classics as very simplistic and easy to perform. Yet these very classics, as easy as they may be to flub through, are some of the most difficult tricks to perform well.

It's like playing a guitar. Almost anyone can learn to inflict a few chords on his/her neighbor in a few weeks. But it takes years of practice, as well as some talent, to actually play the guitar well. Sometimes it's a matter of attitude. A person who approaches a musical instrument as one would approach a weapon will almost never master the instrument. The instrument will master him, instead. But a person who approaches a musical instrument as a means of self-expression and pleasure will usually reach that goal within a decade or so. Even the results of the first few years will sound better than those of the vicious player.

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2dBuslkHgQ

Or the version filmed in the television studio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJF9t45SkY&feature=related

This is truly happy music.

They are champion level classical guitarists.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Eric Evans
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Quote:
On 2011-06-02 14:34, Bill Palmer wrote:

There are a number of modern performers who have tried to justify using a pouch when wearing a suit. That is so far out of context as to be laughable. It's not even necessary.




Hi Bill,

I think it must seem that I disagree with you a lot, as that is the only time we seem to have any exchange here. Needless to say, that is not the case.

Considering your point above though, I guess we do. Disagree that is.

Whereas I see no need for a performer to justify the use of a pouch with a suit, it seems to me that it would be a historically accurate thing to do.

As I'm sure you know, performers throughout time -- almost without exception -- used a pouch well after the invention of pochettes, profundes, and finally pockets. In formal evening dress no less. With that in mind, I would contend that a performer dressed in a tuxedo while wearing a gibeciere would be the most historically accurate way to present the cups and balls.
Bill Palmer
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Absolutely not. The pouch is an analogue of the workman's apron. Would you perform at a formal gathering with a toilet plunger stuck into the waistband of your tuxedo, or a brickmason's hammer stuck in your pocket? I doubt it. The sole exception I could think of would be a gathering of freemasons.

Besides, most modern performances are NOT historical re-creations. When you present yourself at a formal gathering, if your clothing isn't up to snuff, you don't get rehired.

BTW, you have the order of invention of pockets, pochettes, etc. out of sequence. Pockets were in trousers before pochettes were in tails.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Eric Evans
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That's my point Bill. Your equating the pouch with the workman's apron doesn't fit. Long after pockets had been in common use, both hung from belts and then finally sewn on pants, the gibeciere was still commonly used by prominent performers in full, formal evening dress.
Bill Palmer
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Name some of them. And name the functions where they appeared.

Performances in auditoriums where the performer was the "star of the show" would not count, because they are not formal functions.

Some have said that Pop Krieger used a pouch; however, his family seemed to think that he performed from a servante. And the photographs I have of him do not indicate the use of a pouch. His family were impressed with Vernon, because he did not use a servante.

My context is not 19th century performers or performers who are busking. It's also not performers who are doing historical re-creations, Renaissance festivals or Fringe shows. My context is contemporary performers working in formal attire at formal or semi-formal functions.

If you want a definitive answer on this, don't go by what I'm saying, go to a place that sells formal wear and ask them what they would recommend. Or go to a booking agent and ask them how they feel about busker's pouches on formal attire.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Eric Evans
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Quote:
On 2011-12-17 12:50, Bill Palmer wrote:
Name some of them. And name the functions where they appeared.

Performances in auditoriums where the performer was the "star of the show" would not count, because they are not formal functions.

Some have said that Pop Krieger used a pouch; however, his family seemed to think that he performed from a servante. And the photographs I have of him do not indicate the use of a pouch. His family were impressed with Vernon, because he did not use a servante.

My context is not 19th century performers or performers who are busking. It's also not performers who are doing historical re-creations, Renaissance festivals or Fringe shows. My context is contemporary performers working in formal attire at formal or semi-formal functions.

If you want a definitive answer on this, don't go by what I'm saying, go to a place that sells formal wear and ask them what they would recommend. Or go to a booking agent and ask them how they feel about busker's pouches on formal attire.


Vernon used his pocket perhaps only because he had seen Malini do it first. I always thought it funny how Stars of Magic played up Vernon's approach after mentioning that Malini had preceded him. Another case in the same publication was Vernon's Impromtu Routine. Somehow it seemed to escape the "learned" publishers that Malini performed his cup and ball routine precisely the way that Vernon was expounding upon his own "impromptu Cups and Balls".

I'm not sure that I understand the first part of your post, "Performances in auditoriums where the performer was the "star of the show" would not count, because they are not formal functions". What do you mean? An auditorium could well exhibit black tie affairs couldn't it?

On the other hand this part, "Name some of them." Is clear enough. As to asking for a Booking Agents advise, that just seems silly. A booking agent will book someone regardless of how they dress, as long as the act is a great one.

Once again, I guess you well know that it is difficult to tell from the flourishy titles, what exactly performers of old did exactly. But for a few engravings or lithographs, we might not know otherwise. With that in mind, because you asked so nicely, I'll name two performers that wore gibeciere's well after the invention of Pockets, and were documented doing so by artwork, not necessarily by the content of their known programs.

The first would be Bartolomeo Bosco. That may come as no surprise to you, as it is my understanding that he started on the street. Still he performed formal evening shows for high society. But the second, may be a surprise. Cellini pointed him out to me several years ago, looking through an illustrated history of magic, he pointed to a lithograph of Robert Houdin, with the question, "isn't he regarded as the Father of Modern Conjuring?" And there before me was an engraving of Robert Houdin using a gib., performing the cups and balls. Surely, Robert Houdin performed in formal dress, no?
Bill Palmer
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Eric:

You surprise me. You can't even spell Robert-Houdin. The fact is that you really haven't answered what I have said.

Robert-Houdin was a contemporary of Bartolomeo Bosco. He performed almost exclusively in auditorium shows. Anything he wore would have been considered "costume," not necessarily evening dress.

Still, you apparently haven't read anything I have said. Again, I reiterate, I am NOT referring to 19th century performers. I am referring to modern performers.

Until you understand ALL of my assertion completely, don't bother to answer.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Eric Evans
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It seems you have moved the bar.

I guess this is the last time we will disagree, openly anyway.
gdw
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Yes.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
pepka
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I don't know how in the world I've been missing this topic. In one word, YES! Just like Beethoven's 5th, The Mona Lisa and the Watusi.
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