I'd like to add a Magic Square to my show. This is a parlor or stage whole-family show, with kids of all ages and adults. Most of the magic is centered around kids grades 1-5, but I do also involve the older kids and the adults.

I'm thinking of talking about the mystery of numbers, the sense of wonder when we first realized they meant something, and the absolute magic when the checkbook balances! Some people are able to do complex math in their heads. And some of us learn tricks that help us. As I'm talking, I'm writing numbers on the board.

I can have the number chosen up in front of the audience or beforehand (either a Sankey Omnilope or a clear bag). Then when they tell me what their number is, I ask - rather smugly - if they can see their number on the board. Of course, it's not there. After studying the board, I see the number by adding.

Whatcha think?
Ed

Ed:

I think you will only know on testing it with a couple of audiences. My reaction as I try to picture it is negative. Is the effect that you are going to predict a number? Or, ..... It seems messy to me. A good magic square is pretty cool in and of itself. The ability to have a number called out at random and then instantly seem to be able to fill in a grid with numbers that allow the addition to that number in all directions is pretty cool.

I would use it as a lead in to a number prediction perhaps, but I like them delineated.

On the other hand if handled carefully....with enough build up....maybe? But, I think it would be confusing to folks.

Hmmmmmm..... I am actually working through this as I write.......then again....... Nope, that scenario I just worked through doesn't work. Too much time from one finale to the next...again, confusing. Not terrible, but not punchy.

I have no idea if that will help, but there you go... All best,

You'll need a very strong presentation to pull off the magic square successfully. It is known to fall very flat in the wrong hands, even though the magician may be really good. Have you seen John Archer's presentation on this? See it on his "Educating Archer" DVD. You need to see this as a benchmark.

Not exactly a Magic Square, but I’ve been trying to get a “Math trick” to be exciting for several shows now, and I’m ready to drop it. The question is not whether it works or even whether the “reveal” is interesting, but it’s just simply too much trouble getting there.

In my case, the specs already have pencil and cards in their hands (they’ve just written some things down that will be predicted later), and I added an extra card “for fun”, because I happened to like a particular “9s” trick (the worst reason, I know). I would never have imagined how difficult it could be to get a room full of people to add two numbers together and get the same answer!

I believe (and this is just my own speculation) that when they’re in “entertain me” mode, calling in another part of the brain is maybe a little unfair.

Your mileage may vary, but I agree with Brad Burt; you may just need to test it a few times.

Good luck!

Thanks for all the input. I was shooting for one of two effects:
-- the kid in their seat with the number, he and family and friends excited about what is coming; or
-- the kid on stage, familiar with math failure (as are most of us!), participating in a cool and successful math event.

I've got Joshua Jay's book and DVD and watched his presentation. I also scanned YouTube for presentations; I caught Harry Lorayne, Benji Bruce, and a couple of others.

Joshua Jay, Harry Lorayne, and most others presented like a mind-warming-up math puzzle. If I was going to do it that way, I think I'd like someone up there with me and involved. Benji Bruce, aside from the addition of the slam poetry, did the whole square and then asked the spectator what her number was. I liked that and was trying to incorporate that also.

I saw a presentation that looked interesting: don't remember the name, but it was done on TV. He put down one grid of numbers and had the host pick four; when added, these became the number. Then he pulled another grid out of his jacket pocket, already filled in with the same numbers in a different arrangement. And they all added to the random number chosen from the first grid.

Math wiz, mind reading, prediction - I guess that's the first choice, and the presentation follows from there. Yes?

Ed

DW: I wrote a book (Mathematical Wizardry) JUST FOR YOU.
Mind-warming math puzzle? You have to be kidding. For all others, if you want to see a Magic Square demo. that I've been getting standing ovations with for DECADES - check out my "Memory Piece" on volume 4 of my "Best Ever" DVD set. Or don't. HL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeaTzZO8jTU


I've watched this many times ... just wonderful.....

That was the one I saw. And honestly it doesn't seem to have much "magic" (other that Harry Lorayne's incredible mind!). It would seem that, if a MS is going to fit into a magic show, there ought to be some element of mental magic to it, such as a prediction or mind reading.

I would also wonder if a large part of the audience response to Mr. Lorayne's presentation is due to "riding the wave". He's been presenting mind and memory "magic" through the whole show. It's doubtful his audience has seen a chicken finding a card or stretching spaghetti noodles.

And that may speak more to a lack of cohesion amongst the hodge-podge of tricks in my show than the merits of a MS presentation. Still, I think this might work for me - if I can get it to work for me!

Ed

That was the one I saw. And honestly it doesn't seem to have much "magic" (other that Harry Lorayne's incredible mind!). It would seem that, if a MS is going to fit into a magic show, there ought to be some element of mental magic to it, such as a prediction or mind reading.

I would also wonder if a large part of the audience response to Mr. Lorayne's presentation is due to "riding the wave". He's been presenting mind and memory "magic" through the whole show. It's doubtful his audience has seen a chicken finding a card or stretching spaghetti noodles.

And that may speak more to a lack of cohesion amongst the hodge-podge of tricks in my show than the merits of a MS presentation. Still, I think this might work for me - if I can get it to work for me!

Ed

(Can't do anything about the double post, but I can delete the triple! Hazards of posting via mobile.)

You're absolutely right, Ed. I don't do magic for the public. HL.

It may not be 'magic' per se, but it is kind of 'magical'. Also, presentations like this can be fit into a magic 'act' in any number of ways and with any number of justifications. Best,

I think I'd probably combine it with another trick that is all about silliness. See this thread:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=17

You can show that dividing 28 by 4 gives you 13 and you can show it several ways to prove the numbers work. Then move into a magic square presentation.

Here's how I envision it, but I do kids almost exclusively:

"How many of you like math? Yeah, me too. But the best thing about math is when you can confuse your teacher. Here's a neat math trick I learned years ago and it gave my teachers headaches when I showed it to them!"

Go into the 28/4=13 trick and tell it as what the teacher said, etc.

"So, after I had the teacher totally confused, I would turn over the paper and show her a grid like this and ask for any number under 100. How about one of you thinking of a number for me? Any number."

Do the MS trick as quickly as you can.

"So my teachers never knew whether they should just flunk me for my crazy division or have me teach the class because I can add so fast."

This is thinking as I type, but I like the dichotomy of the two tricks showing how if you torture numbers they will admit to anything...

-Patrick

Nice thought. I have a version of that routine - now I know what I can use it for.
And while most of my shows are kid-centered, I do want to include the adults and older siblings as well.
This would make a nice transition into a mental magic section; sets the mood as a bit of magic and mind-reading stuff, and a whole lot of general unexpected stuff.

The original question was more along the lines of "Should I have the number selected beforehand and unknown to me? Or drawn from a bag or otherwise selected on stage with the trick?" If done like this, I'm thinking selected beforehand - going from the one set of numbers to the other, they have no idea what to expect, and it's all been silliness up to that point. But as soon as you ask for the number that you couldn't have known and show that you've constructed the square around that number, it gets an injection of magic.

Yes? No?
Ed