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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Lance Armstrong (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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rockwall
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Quote:
On Feb 18, 2015, magicfish wrote:
Oh and one more thing.
I never, ever once said, nor implied, that I thought Lance Armstrong lied about cancer.
You either have comprehension issues, or you are dishonest.


Quote:
On Feb 17, 2015, magicfish wrote:
.. And as far as cancer goes, he lied to cancer victims from day one, and theres talk that he may never have had cancer.
...


Hmmm. That certainly seems to be the implication. But, maybe you'll claim that he only 'thought' he had cancer so in this case he wasn't lying.
magicfish
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Rockwall, you're smarter than this.
1) don't be silly. Everyone who races in the Tour is an athlete.
2) you are a good cut and paster,,please show me where I stated that it was my opinion that Armstrong lied about Cancer.
magicfish
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Ok guys, the last word is all yours.
Onward.
TonyB2009
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On Feb 17, 2015, magicfish wrote:
... and there's talk that he may never have had cancer.

Your own words. Back them up, or don't. I suspect you won't because you can't. You've seen a couple of sensationalist TV reports and you think you know it all.

As a matter of FACT drug use in cycling began in the 1890s, with one coach responsible for three deaths among his team. That is surely worse than anything Armstrong did.

In 1930 the race organisers actually told cyclists that they would not provide the drugs the cyclists would require during the three weeks. That is how widespread drug use (cocaine, speed, and even strychnine) was in the sport. It wasn't officially outlawed until the sixties - when the problem got extremely bad.

EPO was first used nearly a decade before Armstrong's first win.

The blood transfusions you mentioned were first widely used in world cycling by the US amateur team for the 1984 olympics. Not by Armstrong.

Stop pretending, and actually do some research. You may hate Armstrong. You are entitled to your view. But don't make things up about him.
Mr. Mystoffelees
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I was a competitive bicycle racer in the late 50's when it was not so popular. First, Lance had testicular cancer. Second, he later became very, very good at the sport- off the charts v-max, and oxygen-using machine with few at his level. Third, the level between very best, and second best, it often slim. Fourth, he could not hope to be best without taking the same, or better, aids as most others were. Fifth, had I been good enough, I would have done the same. Sixth, these are informed adults- why not open it up and let them take what they need to compete? In a way, these athletes are research guinea pigs- they can help the human race reach new heights of performance! Seventh, how would you feel if pizza were categorized doping?
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
magicfish
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Quote:
On Feb 18, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 17, 2015, magicfish wrote:
... and there's talk that he may never have had cancer.

Your own words. Back them up, or don't. I suspect you won't because you can't. You've seen a couple of sensationalist TV reports and you think you know it all.

As a matter of FACT drug use in cycling began in the 1890s, with one coach responsible for three deaths among his team. That is surely worse than anything Armstrong did.

In 1930 the race organisers actually told cyclists that they would not provide the drugs the cyclists would require during the three weeks. That is how widespread drug use (cocaine, speed, and even strychnine) was in the sport. It wasn't officially outlawed until the sixties - when the problem got extremely bad.

EPO was first used nearly a decade before Armstrong's first win.

The blood transfusions you mentioned were first widely used in world cycling by the US amateur team for the 1984 olympics. Not by Armstrong.

Stop pretending, and actually do some research. You may hate Armstrong. You are entitled to your view. But don't make things up about him.

Your attack has forced me to respond. Tony, give your head a shake. Youve been duped. Your hero is a liar, a cheat and a criminal. Let it go.
Yes I have absolutely 100 percent heard people ask if he even had cancer. Fact. Why are they wondering? Because once you are exposed as a liar, people question everything youve ever told them.
Your knowledge of cycling is half decent, but your knowledge of what level Armstrong took his scam to is non existent. Or, your deliberately turning a blind eye because you cant stand the truth.
Have some integrity.
And work on your comprehension.
I don't want to defend myself against you anymore. There is a readon that Armstrong might go to jail.
The U.S. government agrees with me, cycling agrees with me, and the board members of the corporations he defrauded agree with me.
You wont change our minds. Your hero is a lying, cheating, criminal.
Ill give you the last word again, please don't use it as an attack on my character.
You are in the minority on this one.
Im glad you like him.
Leave me alone.
TonyB2009
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Magicfish, you still have not backed up the allegation - which has no place else been published - that Lance did not have cancer. You have made that up. It is poor form to argue with made-up 'facts'. It destroys the credibility of everything else you say.
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On Feb 18, 2015, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
I was a competitive bicycle racer in the late 50's when it was not so popular. First, Lance had testicular cancer. Second, he later became very, very good at the sport- off the charts v-max, and oxygen-using machine with few at his level. Third, the level between very best, and second best, it often slim. Fourth, he could not hope to be best without taking the same, or better, aids as most others were. Fifth, had I been good enough, I would have done the same. Sixth, these are informed adults- why not open it up and let them take what they need to compete? In a way, these athletes are research guinea pigs- they can help the human race reach new heights of performance! Seventh, how would you feel if pizza were categorized doping?

Well put.

I was a competitive runner in the eighties, and if injury had not curtailed my career I would have used whatever was available to get to the top. It would have been the decision of a mature adult, and I believe we should let mature adults make these decisions.
tommy
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Do you play poker?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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rockwall
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Quote:
On Feb 18, 2015, magicfish wrote:
.. and a system of mid race blood transfusions the extent of which cycling has never, repeat never seen.
...


I think we're back to the part where a big reason you're madder at Armstrong than any of the other cheaters is cause he was a better cheater then them.
rockwall
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Just to be clear.

I don't really care that Armstrong doped in a sport where essentially everyone else at the top did also.
I think the way he attacked those who tried to expose him was pretty awful but once you're lying about doping, you're going to do everything you can do to cover it up. That doesn't mean I 'forgive' him for that, just that I understand the motivation and believe most riders in the same position would have done something similar. Again, pretty awful, just the same.
I also think he did a lot of good. He raised awareness of cancer, he gave many with cancer hope, and he created a foundation that has raised and continues to raise millions to help fund cancer research.
I also think that trying to get his girlfriend to take the fall for a hit and run, (or whatever happened, admitting that I don't know all the facts), is pretty despicable.

I would also suggest that you're going to have a hard time finding any 'hero' who doesn't have his or her own demons and faults. Some are worse than others and you'll have to decide what you're willing to forgive. If someone has certain faults that you're not willing to forgive, that's your choice. Just try to be consistent with who you blame and for what. If you can't accept someone who tells a lie, don't forgive others for doing the same thing. If you can't accept someone who dopes, don't forgive others for doing the same thing.
TonyB2009
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Getting his girlfriend to take the blame for the accident was low - lower in my view than anything he ever did on a bicycle.

As a cyclist I think he was superb. As a man who raised awareness and funds for cancer research, he has my admiration. That won't change.
rockwall
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New UCI report on Doping in Cycling

http://news.yahoo.com/cycling-leaders-sl......640.html

"One respected cycling professional felt that even today, 90 percent of the peloton was doping," the report said.
TonyB2009
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Is that a surprise? Can any of the three great tours be raced (as opposed to just survived) without doping? I seriously doubt it.
Dannydoyle
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I have trouble watching them without a beer. I can't imagine competing without doping.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
rockwall
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On Mar 9, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Is that a surprise? Can any of the three great tours be raced (as opposed to just survived) without doping? I seriously doubt it.


It's a bit of a surprise after all the noise about how pro cycling if finally clean now.
acesover
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Quote:
On Mar 9, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 9, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Is that a surprise? Can any of the three great tours be raced (as opposed to just survived) without doping? I seriously doubt it.


It's a bit of a surprise after all the noise about how pro cycling if finally clean now.


Yea and the WWF is all real.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
rockwall
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"I think it is just terrible and disgusting how everyone has treated Lance Armstrong, especially after what he achieved, winning seven Tour de France races while on drugs. When I was on drugs, I couldn't even find my bike.” Willie Nelson

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OK, as SNOPES points out, this is all over facebook but they can't find proof that Willie actually said it. Still kinda funny.
LobowolfXXX
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On May 25, 2015, rockwall wrote:
"I think it is just terrible and disgusting how everyone has treated Lance Armstrong, especially after what he achieved, winning seven Tour de France races while on drugs. When I was on drugs, I couldn't even find my bike.” Willie Nelson

disclaimer
OK, as SNOPES points out, this is all over facebook but they can't find proof that Willie actually said it. Still kinda funny.


Reminds me of Hector "Macho" Camacho...his first loss was to Greg Haugen, who tested positive for marijuana after the fight. Subsequently, Camacho tried to bill himself as "really undefeated," because his only loss was to someone who failed the post-fight drug test. I always thought, "Ya know, if you got your butt kicked by someone who was stoned at the time, you might want to downplay that..."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
rockwall
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Quote:
On May 25, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On May 25, 2015, rockwall wrote:
"I think it is just terrible and disgusting how everyone has treated Lance Armstrong, especially after what he achieved, winning seven Tour de France races while on drugs. When I was on drugs, I couldn't even find my bike.” Willie Nelson

disclaimer
OK, as SNOPES points out, this is all over facebook but they can't find proof that Willie actually said it. Still kinda funny.


Reminds me of Hector "Macho" Camacho...his first loss was to Greg Haugen, who tested positive for marijuana after the fight. Subsequently, Camacho tried to bill himself as "really undefeated," because his only loss was to someone who failed the post-fight drug test. I always thought, "Ya know, if you got your butt kicked by someone who was stoned at the time, you might want to downplay that..."



That's hilarious Lobo. Thanks.
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