|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 | ||||||||||
*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
I don't think being a professional magician is anything to be proud of. Most of them are bloody starving and can't afford the price of a sandwich no matter what they tell you on the surface. And I am talking about big names too. And they don't enjoy magic as much as the amateur either. How can they when they are thinking "money" all the time?
And yes. Every magician on Payne's list were amateurs. And there is nothing whatsoever wrong with it either. |
|||||||||
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-10 19:43, Payne wrote: Well, if magic wasn't their profession.... I think in this case we may be making too much of the word "professional". Larry Jennings may not have been a professional magician (by certain standards), but perhaps it is his skill that makes the label unimportant.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
|
|||||||||
*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
I well remember a certain magic shop owner in Britain saying to me once, "I am sick of all the professional magicians that come in here. All they do is talk about themselves"
Incidentally Ken will be interested to know that the Magic Circle one had (and for all I know still has) a definition of "professional". They figured that it would have to be at least 75% of income earned. |
|||||||||
Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-10 19:43, Payne wrote: These men are geniuses! But from my legalistic understand of the word professional these men are not professional magicians. I am a professional magician and have been earning 100% of my income from magic shows for the past 12 years. So what! For all you know I could live in a shack and have contributed nothing to society. And Mark is right, there is a real danger of ‘professional’ magicians losing there passion to become excellent performers because of the need (or desire) for money. If you’re a ‘professional’ prostitute, does that make you any nobler than an amateur prostitute. These labels really mean nothing.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
|||||||||
*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
I envy the amateur. As soon as money enters the picture the fun tends to disappear. And when you do it full time as opposed to part time it then becomes a fight for survival. Trevor Lewis once said to me that "Magic is a very good icing but a lousy cake". I have always remembered that.
|
|||||||||
Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-29 10:18, Mark Lewis wrote: I'm quite satisfied making my spending money by writing about machinery, while doing my magic like a mad bohemian--as it suits me.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
|||||||||
Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
I know the definitions, I understand if you get paid you're a pro and all...... but for me, "Professional" is a mentality. Some amateurs have it and many that get paid don't.
Ray Pierce
|
|||||||||
DaiMagic New user 52 Posts |
There should be a definition between professional and full time. Ronin earlier in the thread hit on some good points. Professional should not be based on what you get rather on what you give.
|
|||||||||
Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
There is no authority, no governing body, no organization to make that definition official. So it is all up for grabs. Everyone gets to be Humpty Dumpty. That is why this discussion is so futile.
|
|||||||||
Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-29 14:44, Whit Haydn wrote: I'm just saving this quote to my clipboard to make it easier to paste into other threads.
Ray Pierce
|
|||||||||
Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
It seems to me after some thought that deciding what is 'professional' in a magic context would be helped by looking at what is considered 'professional' outside that context.
What IS a professional as applied to other crafts, professions, etc.? Why is someone called a professional or better yet considered by peers in those other contexts a 'professional'? You are going to build a new custom built home. You have bought the property and now want your dream home designed. What do you do? Find a really good drafts person to plop something down on paper for you? My brother-in-law is a licensed Architech. Had to take 8 horribly long and complicated tests to get that license. He's a pro. You will get your plans and they will meet all the local, state and/or federal laws, etc. He has a profession and he's a professional. He makes his living doing it and he knows what he's doing. What about a Doctor? I want a professional. The fact is that in ANY profession you have folks that make their living in THAT profession and who are acknowledged in some manner as being good enough to DO the work required. Part of the problem with magic as Whit has pointed out above is that it doesn't have a body or bodies that give a stamp of approval to the people who do it 'professionally' and thus in magic everyone is in some manner 'self verifying'. And, so we join fraternal orgs like the IBM and private clubs like the Magic Castle. We gather as many 'verifying' letters of commendation from clients, etc that can. In the end until there is some 'body' organizing all this stuff, and I'm not particularly for that, then a PRO in magic is anyone who bloody well wants to call themselves one! You say potatoe and I say potato. But, to all intents and purposes without that 'stamp' of outside approval a 'pro' in magic is pretty much someone who makes their living at it. And, not just performing. There are manufacturers, teachers, inventors, publishers, etc. Magic cuts a wide swath. And, many in the profession will wear several hats to MAKE that LIVING. So...the guy who makes his living full time IN some area of magic is a Professional. Everyone else are amateurs. In many cases hugely talented amateurs to be sure, but still amateurs. There's a simple difference between the guy cutting lawns on the weekend to make a bit of extra money no matter how much money that is and they guy with a full time lawn care company that's out there doing it day in and day out. All best,
Brad Burt
|
|||||||||
Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
And there are both artists and non-artists among both the professional and the amateurs.
|
|||||||||
Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
Whit:
Totally agree!
Brad Burt
|
|||||||||
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
It seems to me that one can niether be a professional nor an amatuer as it is a state doing rather than being. When one is working for pay, then one is doing a professional job. When one is working simply for the love of it then one is doing an amatuer job even when one is doing the same act.
In short its only money.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
|||||||||
Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
Let's try to use that practically. You are working professionally and making your living doing magic. But, only at those times you are actively working for money are you considered a Professional. In between let's say you do a trick or two for friends kids making you switch to Amateur status.
Now, a show call comes in and the first thing asked is whether you are a professional or not. Given what's written above you have to answer 'no'! Possible client in disappoint says, "Sorry, but I really want someone who's a pro." And, they hang up. The problem of it being a 'state' is that logically something much determine how that state has extension in time. My argument is that if one makes their living with magic and only magic then that professional state extends until one ceases to make their living at it and moves onto something else. Also, consider that Practice would have to fall under the Amateur state. I 'like' to practice, but I don't usually get paid to do it. I DO get paid, but in the future. An Amateur does not 'need' to practice for any reason really, but a Pro does. The professional mind set is always active: How can I practice better? How can I sell more shows? I need to be ready at any time to do some magic with the possibility that doing so casually will offer up the opportunity to book a show. And on and on. It's a son of gun to make a living as what is generally called, "A novelty performer." You have to be in the game constantly and take it seriously in a way that the amateur simply is not 'required' to do. They may take it just as seriously, but my definition they don't HAVE to do so. Best,
Brad Burt
|
|||||||||
*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
You know, a fish does not stop being a fish just because it is not swimming at the moment.
|
|||||||||
jazzy snazzy Inner circle run off by a mob of Villagers wielding 2109 Posts |
True, he's in school learning how not to get caught.
That's all part of being a fish.
"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz |
|||||||||
Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
Sheesh, just re-read my post above....I apologize for all the typos...was really tired when I wrote it...or was it too much beer? Well, one or the other. The 'my' in the last line should be 'by'. That's the one I dislike the most...... ;-}
Best,
Brad Burt
|
|||||||||
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
One would not have to answer “No” or “Yes” as one could answer the question by explaining that one has worked in a professional capacity for a number for a years, or whatever and so on.
Of course all the people have been programmed since childhood to believe they are what they do; Mr Postman, Mr Taylor, and so on. Even Mr Mr Professional Magician has fallen for this illusion evidently. Anyway Mr Cardsharp is off to the casino, be seeing you. :)
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Amateur or Professional (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |