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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
That is absolutely true. Every bit of it.
I also prefer to perform with silver dollars, because they are easier for a group of people to see. I squirrelled away a bunch of Morgans when they were less expensive than they are today. One of my signature pieces when I do closeup is the CBS. For years I used an original Presley Guitar set, but I needed a set in silver dollar sized coins. So I got one made by Todd Lassen. My setup requires an additional gaff, so I had one of those made, as well. This put the total cost of the setup at close to $500.00. It was definitely worth it. Sure, I could do it with a smaller set, but there is a look and feel to a Morgan dollar that no other coin has. And the coins have had so much publicity during the past 20 years that they aren't quite as unusual looking as some other large silver coins might be. The late Ted Binion had several million of them in the hoard that was released after his estate went on the market, and other hoards of Morgans have come up for sale, as well. These have been sold on some of the home shopping shows on late night television. So they are not as unfamiliar as they might have been, say, 30 years ago. It's not a simple situation, really. The key thing in what Donnie has said, though, is the concept of perfection. When you have slave labor operating spinning machines, puking copper cups made of dubious alloy by the thousands, you don't get the same kind of quality you get from a specialist who takes the same care with that last cup he spun as he did with the first one.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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JRob Veteran user Central South Carolina 395 Posts |
I took the minimalist approach for a long time. But I have found that with cups there is a real difference and everytme I go up I find the handling so much nicer. Just as with a good smoking pipe, the important thing is to find cups that feel good in your hand.
My father is a barber, and I used to marvel that he would pay three figures for a pair of scissors. His response stuck with me, "Son, you can't afford to scrimp on your tools of the trade".
"Jim Roberts, AKA: Professor Jay Rob "<br>
The Professor's Facebook Page |
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cupsandballsmagic Inner circle 2705 Posts |
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I'll say this. If I packed up all my tooling and shipped it to India and ordered up 1000 sets of Foxy 3 cups, they would cost you considerably less to buy. ...and you'd get 995 sets sent back to you... |
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Tom Fenton Inner circle Leeds, UK (but I'm Scottish) 1477 Posts |
Donnie,
You forget to mention that your customers know for sure that you are an honest man with a reputable company. Oh yes, you're a Gentleman too.
"But there isn't a door"
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
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My father is a barber, and I used to marvel that he would pay three figures for a pair of scissors. His response stuck with me, "Son, you can't afford to scrimp on your tools of the trade". Most of the people in your audience will experience you handling the cups once in their lives. You will experience handling them every day. If a properly balanced, well-nesting, solid cup provides you with a better artistic experience and a better performance, it is probably worth it. (I also started with an aluminum combo set -- which I still enjoy very much, and which I will continue to use. And I have experimented with pewter "Jefferson" cups from Kirk Stieff, as well. But my first set of sterling silver cups should be on their way today or tomorrow. Looking forward to it!) |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-07 00:37, Bill Palmer wrote:... What I was getting at is that at least I tried - explored - learned about what works and I keep exploring. They started out as brass candle sticks cut down and bottoms put in and then later plated - and they do look very nice. He made a set of three since he had three. My objective at the time was to finish the routine by picking up the cups and having the melt into Mylar streams using the mylar coils that were available back then. Learning by doing. At least I tried getting that load move to work using metal cups. Even though they are just the right size for the routine in my hands they simply don't drop to the table so lightly as to serve the routine's basic aesthetic. What folks doing the "traditional" routines have to leverage using finer cup sets today is a good couple of generations of performers and machinists exploring what advantages they can get from available cups and what design issues there are to refine for that sort of routine.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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ancientmagic Regular user Tucson AZ 112 Posts |
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Whoopie Golberg or Halle Berry O.k., Gazzo wins hands down with that one!!!!! That is the ultimate comparison. Best, John
"In victory you deserve champagne…in defeat you need it!" –Napoleon Bonaparte
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AndyComic Loyal user 211 Posts |
I produced a budget cups and balls set a couple of years back and I have to say that if your a pro performer ,performing regularly then get yourself a really nice set. Its great to have a heavy cup that can take a beating. $100 and $3-400 is a big jump so if the cups and balls are your routine, spend up but if its just an occasional act or just part of your act then save the money for some other piece of rubbish you need to buy in your life.
Andy |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Andy makes a good point here. I got one of the first of the Andy Comic sets for the museum. It was a real bargain. The cups were very light, but serviceable. The whole package was actually priced a bit low.
However, I also have a set that was used by a busker for a while. It didn't hold up like a set of Gazzo cups would. I don't believe that Andy ever intended these to be the final set that a pro would use. I think the original purpose was to give a cup student something he could work with to get a real handle on the routine and possibly to raise the money required for a really suitable set of cups.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts |
I sold cups for years, I graduated my clients into copper cups from Morriseys and Ring n things. There are differences and also certain moves that cannot be done with Uday. Great starter sets, for the money.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
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On 2011-06-06 10:54, Sir Richard wrote: That's a much better answer than the "Toyota vs. BMW" response. However, I have worked outside and no wind has ever knocked over my cups, nor did I knock them over with my fingers. (I did drop them once or twice) I would get better cups when I can, but I think $100 would be more than enough for me. I can't see anything making me want to spend $400 for cups.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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Sir Richard Special user 650 Posts |
Quote: I agree, it all depends on the performer & the performance. The most I've paid for cups is $160 for a set of Phoenix cups that I use constantly. If I ever wind up paying more for a set it's just going to be out of selfish desire with no logical reason to get them.
On 2011-06-21 23:44, ed rhodes wrote: Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
As I look over this thread, I see a couple of problems. One of them is that many of us here are old enough to remember when we could purchase a set of Paul Fox cups directly from Danny Dew for $25 or so, and we could purchase a set of Charlie Miller cups for about $20 or so. I remember when P&L cups cost about $15.
The time frame here would be roughly 1960. When we look over the prices of cups in the old catalogs, we see those same prices, and we don't realize that with inflation, etc., today's prices would be roughly 15 to 20 times as high, more for silver, because of its skyrocketing prices. I guarantee any of you who have stated that you can't see any difference between a $100 set of cups and a $300 set of cups that I could put a set of Sherwood copper cups into your hands, and you would see it right off the bat. Or I could put a set of Gary Animal or RnT II Gazzo cups into your hands and you would feel the difference. When a performer states that he has worked outside with lightweight cups and he has never had them blown off the table by the wind, it indicates to me that he hasn't worked in some of the situations that other, more experienced performers have worked in. I've worked in situations in which a Palanquin illusion was moved a good six inches by a gust of wind. Then again, when's the last time there was a tropical windstorm, hurricane or tornado in Rhode Island? Granted, when you are working outdoors, you need the sense to come in out of the rain (or the storm, as the case may be), but I have seen windstorms of more than 60 mph pop up out of nowhere when we were working in places where television and/or radio access was not only discouraged, but forbidden. The Toyota vs. Beamer comparison may be a little unfair, but only a little. In 1972, when Toyota set up a parts distribution center in Houston, my band played for the grand opening of it. The fellow who was in charge of this promotion had a top-of-the-line Toyota sports car that was basically a hand-made automobile. He let my band take turns driving it around his neighborhood. My brother-in-law has a Beamer, and it isn't as good as this particular automobile was. But that's a one-off. The average Beamer is better made than the average Corolla, and it doesn't suffer from stuck pedal syndrome. The thing about fine products is that you can't appreciate them until you have actually tried them. For the average person, one bottle of champagne is pretty much like another. But there are certain vintages of Dom Perignon that make the off-the-shelf grocery store champagnes taste like swill. So don't say that there is no logical reason to spend more than a particular amount of money for a set of cups. One of two things will happen. Either you will try a set of fine cups and realize the difference, or inflation will raise the price of the cups you use past the threshold you have set. Remember the famous statement from Bill Gates, which I paraphrase here -- There is no reason to need more than 640K of memory. An iphone has more memory than that.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Donnie Buckley V.I.P. Cleveland, Ohio 1123 Posts |
And a new iPhone 4, fully loaded will cost you $299 at ATT.
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Magic Researcher Elite user 406 Posts |
I'd rather have a good set of cups than an iphone. After 3 years, what would the phone be worth? An iphone could earn you some income but be worthless after 3 years. A good set of cups can earn income and still be worth something after 3 years. Plus this set of cups can keep earning for years.
Anyone not seeing the value of a good set of cups is thinking like a nonprofessional - a nonbusiness person. The term is show business and good props earn their way. MR
Repeating a falsehood often and loudly does not make it true.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
The troubling part of this thread is the apparent close-mindedness of people who really haven't experienced a fine set of cups.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-22 12:23, Bill Palmer wrote: Oh, I'm not saying there isn't a difference. I don't think the difference is enough to warrant $200 more dollars, but I'm a weekend warrior, so I guess I don't count. Quote:
When a performer states that he has worked outside with lightweight cups and he has never had them blown off the table by the wind, it indicates to me that he hasn't worked in some of the situations that other, more experienced performers have worked in. I've worked in situations in which a Palanquin illusion was moved a good six inches by a gust of wind. Then again, when's the last time there was a tropical windstorm, hurricane or tornado in Rhode Island? Haven't had too much tropical stuff, but we have had serious "nor-easters" more than once.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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yin_howe Special user Malaysia 981 Posts |
The PFD Zenneth Kok cups are quite decent. Even coms with 4 crochet balls and 4 mini tennis balls.
"Talent without passion is talent wasted.."
https://www.youtube.com/user/yinhowe80/ |
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Sir Richard Special user 650 Posts |
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On 2011-06-23 22:39, yin_howe wrote: Yep! Just recently bought a set from Penguin Magic for about $67 with the secret password! Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
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Alexander Wells Veteran user 311 Posts |
The thing with magic is that we have clubs, forums and lectures which include magicians all the way from casual hobbyists to full time professionals. ( I'm aware that some "amateurs" are much more skilled than some professionals..).
It's a bit like being at a joiners' or plumbers' conference and some of us are talking about the latest Hilti drill and others are pointing out that Tesco (read walmart for U.S.) have an own brand drill for £30. The pro wouldn't dream of using a cheap tool but the diy enthusiast would never dream of spending hundreds of pounds on something they'll only ever use for fixing the bathroom cabinet. |
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