I'm looking to buy my first set of professional cups. I have the brass magic makers set, I have an aluminum combo set that holds a tennis ball as final load, I have a Johnson chop cup which I really like but am not crazy about the design. I was going to just get the penguin copper cups but I want something with really nice workmanship. After all I almost like collecting quality props as much as performing them! I've always liked the RNTII Foxy design. Now with the Foxy 3's in heavyweight copper I think I found my cup. But then again I always get caught steering at the sherwood smooth copper cups for way too long. Being about the same price makes it very difficult to decide.

I'd like to hear what you guys think about those two. I've seen just about every cup I would like and really only would want one of these two.

Stevie D

I own, love & use the Tom Franks Phoenix cups. If I were going to buy a newer, more expensive set it would be RNT II's Phoenix II set, but that's me, & I'm not you. You're going to have to decide what works for you.

Sir Richard.

Foxy's... I had the Sherwoods and did not like the feel, balance at all so I sold them.

Go to a convention and see if other magicians will let you look at the cups they use. If you belong to a magic club, ask other members what they like.

If you are going to the IBM covention in Dallas, let me know, and I'll bring a few sets with me.

Hmmm I really thought people would be more for the Sherwoods. I really like the foxy's myself, but never seen either in person. This is why I'm glad I asked in this forum. I could also get the combo set in foxys for not much more too.

Stevie D

I have a set of Foxy 2.5's, and I think the Foxy 3's are a combo version of the 2.5, so it is included.
I like the Foxy 2.5 very much, but I have only touched the Sherwood cups.

If you are going to use them to do magic get what FEELS right. You don't need HUGE final loads... hard to conceal and handle.

The Sherwoods are probably the finest made and looking cups and many love them for both, looking at and performing... It is just that the weight and balance FOR ME wasn't right. So, I stick with my Paul Fox cups and/or Indian set when I do the routines.

The best advise, above, was to TRY OUT in person various cups.

No, they aren't. The Foxy 3's are an improved version of the 2.5's and are apparently available either combo or non combo. The 2.5's are not available as combo cups at this time.

Posted: Jun 17, 2011 4:14pm
Michael Vincent spent a couple of hours at my house, trying out various cups, until he decided on the Sherwoods. Most people really like the Sherwoods, but there are some people who don't like their feel.

These were designed around Brett Sherwood's hands, so if your hands are a lot different from his, you might not like them, either.

Yes, the web site says that they include all the 2.5 design features, but use a thicker stock. I think I remember the thread the discussing the minor changes that needed to be made for the thicker metal.

The point was, the combo set from RNT2 includes the "combo" cup, while the Sherwood set requires a fourth cup. Which makes the prices dissimilar.

Hi All,
Just come across this thread and thought it very interesting and thought I would help out, by clarifying a couple issues.

I agree every performer should buy what cups they feel comfortable using and what will help them produce the effects they want to achieve.

However, I am a little perplexed to read V.I.P. member, Pete Biro’s remark’s regarding my cups, especially since 2004 I have had a wonderful testimonial from Pete (with full permission from Pete) on my Engraved Silver Page of my web site. I have copied it here, as I did not think it appropriate linking readers directly to my web site to read it there.

Here is the quote…
“The balance, the feel, the size and ergonomics are only surpassed by their beauty and workmanship. If Rolls Royce were to make cups, these would be it. Best cups on the planet!” – Pete Biro

I can only assume after Pete raved about my cups, he then decided one day that he preferred narrower Paul Fox cups. This is fine by me, some peoples hand are smaller etc. I must, unfortunately, also disagree with Pete’s remarks regarding the balance of my cups. My cups are hand spun and acknowledged, by the majority of buyers as almost faultless, when it comes to their balance. I didn’t say this, these are actual buyers factual testimonials on my web site. If you want more I have tons not on my web site.

The cups I designed were not made to fit my hands, but to hold a regulation tennis ball. At the time I designed my cups there were only about two styles (I believe) that were specially based on a regulation tennis ball. As a matter of interest, when I first saw my initial prototype, I thought they were too large, but I soon found that they handled ideally, because of the many added design benefits. Many magicians point out that they used to take their Paul Fox cup to the supermarket to select lemons that would fit inside etc., but after buying my cups they do not worry, as their loads fit easily now. Another big bonus is the larger attic space. Check out my web site if you want to read more, but this is not the place.

Finally, you do NOT have to buy a set of straight Smooth Copper Cups and a separate combo cup. I have been selling ‘Smooth Copper Combo Sets’ for years. These also come in Smooth Brass Combo Sets and Smooth Nickel Plate Combo Sets.

Most recently, another NEW development is my improved copper combo, which is the same size, but will now accommodate a regulation tennis ball, flush, on a hard surface! My spinner has been working months on engineering this marvel combo cup and these will be available within weeks.

I hope this has answered your questions and set the record straight in several areas. No hard feelings Pete, you are a great guy and I remember speaking with you and John Cornelius at the Abbott’s Get-together in 1980, while I was studying with Neil Foster.

All Good Wishes,
Brett Sherwood

Brett: there are no finer cups than yours. And I still stand by my original comments, as you posted above.

But, for some reason when I started to perform with them, they just didn't feel the same to me as the Danny Dew Fox cups so I reverted back to what I was used to. Also, my arthritic hands make it difficult for me to do the cups as smoothly as I did in the past.

Abbott's in 1980... you have a great memory, I know I was there, but unfortunately don't remember any details. I do know I had a great time, despite the heat and humidity.

Hi Pete,
Sorry to hear about the arthritis, something all sleight-of-hand professional worry about. I appreciate you clarifying everything and I think you are right to revert to cups you can feel confident working with. As you know, a magician lacking confidence in front of an audience is at their mercy.
Take care and best wishes,
Brett Sherwood

By no means do I profess to have any knowledge regarding various cups. However, I will state whenever I visit with my friend who owns a set of the silver engraved Sherwood cups, I become extremely envious. They are absolutely beautiful. When I see him perform with them, I cringe at the thought. After countless performances they still look absolutely beautiful.

Someday a set will be sitting on my shelf at home... someday... someday!!!

Labound.... NO NO, not sitting on your shelf... on your table being used to entertain folks.

Thank you for you kind words, but I must agree with Pete here, because they were made as 'workers'. Please see the photo of my original cups received in 2002 and still going strong. It is in the thread below this one, regarding orders for my silver cups. They have traveled around the world with me and still give me a thrill.
All the best,
Brett Sherwood

I love my Sherwood Copper Engraved cups that I purchased last year...but you can't deny that RNT2 makes very good cups as I own the Mendoza Cups, Sisti cups and some Fox minis (which have a respectable place in my heart).

Cupsamagically,
Dom

Thanks for considering RNT2 cups Stevie D!
And double thanks to you too Dom! The Mendoza Combo Cups were originally designed in the 80s by Tim Star. They are a full size set of combo cups that Tim designed around a tennis ball. (I just spoke with one of the old master spinners from those days who told me that he actually taught Tim how to spin metals while he was living in the states and working for RNT.) The Sisti Cups are, of course Jim Sisti's design, created for real world working mages. The PF Mini Cups in all their various finishes and metals are still my favorite "go to cup" in my inventory.
Jonathan, the Foxy 3 cups are indeed the same as Foxy 2.5 cups, but spun exclusively from heavy gauge metals. It really is remarkable how the heavier gauge copper transformed a really good cup into a really great cup. I knew it would make a difference, but I was surprised at just how much of a difference it made. IMO - it's currently the best cup on the market for cups and balls.
The Foxy 3 Combo Cups are entirely new cups. It's interesting that I find this discussion at this time, because I just ruined the block for the Foxy 2.5s by spinning a batch of the heavy gauge copper Foxy 3 - the block was made from aluminum and it just didn't hold up to the pressure. The new block is now steel and should last for another 10,000 cups. BTW, I polished off that bottle of Captain right after I ruined that block - thanks! It hit the spot.

While I'm here, in response to other threads on the Café regarding good starter sets of cups, I have just reduced the price of the Foxy 2.5 Aluminum cups (in the brushed Satin finish) to $99 to make them more affordable to guys that want a quality set of cups that are REALLY designed for the cups and balls trick and can do all the newer modern moves that are out there. The profit margin on these cups is now almost nothing, but I have quite A LOT of them in stock and I would rather see them in some young magician's hands than on my shelves.

Thanks again!
Donnie

Donnie,
I've said it before but it bears repeating...

...you're a class act!

Point well taken, you are correct sir. I just visualize them sitting on my shelf. I don't do any cup slamming, so truth be told, I doubt I would ever damage them in performance. My problem is I would probably just stare at them all day and never practice!!

Correction. I just got a call from Jake who told me that the original Tim Star Mendoza Combo Cups were actually made for lacrosse ball size balls and it was Jake himself who expanded the cup set to the tennis ball capacity it has today.
My apologizes, it just goes to show that even I am still learning the pedigree of the RNT and RNT2 legacy.