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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Know any Christian mentalists? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

THOR
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Do you know of any person who considers themself a Christian who performs shows that are primarity mentalism (with some kind of Christian theme or context in the show).

I can think of 3:
Eric Reamer
Toby Travis
Felix Snipes

Anyone else that you know of?
Risto L.
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Thor, I have never seen a mentalist that has some sort of Christian theme or context in his show. I would be very interested to know how they do it. Can you give me some examples from the shows of those three people you mentioned? Thanks in advance.

Risto

Smile
Joe M. Turner
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I've performed some mentalism and mental magic as part of a show for churches.

I use my presentation to make it clear that my goal is to present the appearance of mindreading. "If I really could read your mind, what might that look like? What would the implications be?"

After the routine, I encourage them to consider carefully the ethics of people who would attempt to use similar deceptions for immoral purposes. In much the same way as, say, Felix Snipes or even Houdini, the performance is given as an overall debunking of fraudulent psychics. No exposure, but just duplicating the effect and giving the message that people should be extremely cautious about dealing with anyone who claims to have supernatural abilities to talk with the dead, read minds, etc.

Most of my Gospel performance is geared to the idea that -- after you've been entertained with artful performances -- you are asked to consider the nature of deception and how if I can deceive your eyes and mind regarding the objects and events you've seen here tonight, how much simpler might it be to be deceived regarding important but intangible things? I emphasize how important it is to have a solid foundation in the Word and learn to evaluate our experiences in the light of scripture, testing all things and being good stewards of our gifts.

Mentalism -- and mental magic -- can be presented entertainingly and with purpose by Christians; however, I believe that the presentation must always make it clear that what is being attempted is the duplication of the experience of "mind reading" and not the thing itself. It is, however, also part of my presentation to make it very difficult to tell the difference... which is the point I'm trying to make.
...
Regards,
Joe M. Turner
[email]jmt@turnermagic.com[/email]
www.turnermagic.com
Joe Marotta
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Can You Believe I Have
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Hi Joe,

Thank you for that answer. You have made me reconsider mentalism's place in gospel magic. Especially with TV shows like "crossing over", maybe once again there is a great need to expose these frauds publically.

Joe Marotta
NickW
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In the UK, you might try John Archer (http://website.lineone.net/~archini/Home.htm)
Cornelius
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Actually, I am a Christian who does mentalism. I don't try to feed any such belief in ESP. I just tell the audience I'm going to perform something bizarre and carry on with the routine. I just let them kind of "assume" ESP at work.
I don't think unethical performers like John Edwards are good at all for this society. He's not even a talented reader in my opinion.

From,
Cornelius. Smile
Brian Proctor
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God? He knows everything. Smile
GlenD
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Hello, i am new to this site... actually just joined earlier today but i have a big interest in mind-reading/prediction/mentalism effects and been recently trying to put together some of the effects i can do into some semblence of a working routine. But just havent been able to think of a way to tie it into a gospel presentation, other than mentioning at some point that nothing is hidden from God, etc... I really appreciate your thoughts Joe T. Smile
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
Doug Peters
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My Mom is a Christian, and she really does read minds Smile

At least she's had my brothers and me fooled for the last forty years Smile
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
knightmagic98
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I am currently working on a mentalism show for middle school/high school youth groups...trying to relate how God knows everything ahead of time, and also debunking John Edward, Miss Cleo, The Pet Psychic, etc.
Joe Marotta
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If you want a well researched account of cold reading, check this out. It was written by a psychologist, not a mentalist yet it appears that he had mentalist consultants working with him.

Maybe this link will give you some good research to share with people on 'how it's done' by Edwards and Miss Cleo.

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:voW......mp;hl=en

Or try this one:
http://nli.northampton.ac.uk/ass/psych/p......gies.doc

Hope this helps.

Joe Marotta
PS: Okay, I think I fixed the second link.
knightmagic98
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Thanks, Joe
Darmoe
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As non-christian and full-time mentalist that's been heavily persecuted by "good christians" for what I do, I need to know why on earth confessed Christians who don't believe in or want to sustain the idea of "The Gifts of The Spirit" (e.g. the day of Pentecost, etc.)... why would you want to do mentalism and too, why do you feel you could do it "right" given your bias?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic but, it sounds like you want to cash in on the current trends surrounding Mentalism and the popularity of bizarre/psychic entertainment and thus, you're looking for the praverbial "loop" through which to climb through, keep a clean conscience and do something supposedly contrary to your course of faith (depending on which type of "Christian" you claim to be... some LIKE JOHN EDWARD AND SYLVIA BROWN credit God 110% for everything they do.)

Those sharing their "opinion" on this topic need to actually investigate said individuals directly vs. accepting someone else's two-cents on the issue... I've known Ms. Brown for nearly 20 years and have interacted with JE over the past 3 years... both, I consider to be honest individuals and more or less on the up and up... in other words, THEY AREN'T DOING ALL THE CHEATS SOME HAVE SUGGESTED THEY DO.

Anywho... just wanted to chime in and offer some food for thought. We just completed on thread about how corny and sad the shape of Gospel Magic is and now we have folks that want to take one of the most difficult fields of our art and belittle it in a Gospel themed program?

Doing a demonstrative "Consumer Protection" program... fine! But please don't ruin good mental magic this way! Smile
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
tglund
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Quote:
On 2002-08-26 17:19, Darmoe wrote:
As non-christian and full-time mentalist that's been heavily persecuted by "good christians" for what I do, I need to know why on earth confessed Christians who don't believe in or want to sustain the idea of "The Gifts of The Spirit" (e.g. the day of Pentecost, etc.)... why would you want to do mentalism and too, why do you feel you could do it "right" given your bias?


Darmoe, would you elaborate on what you believe "The Gifts of The Spirit" are. I want to ensure I am not misinterpreting what you mean here. I appreciate your clarification.


Quote:
Those sharing their "opinion" on this topic need to actually investigate said individuals directly vs. accepting someone else's two-cents on the issue...


I agree with your statement above. It is better to have first hand knowledge rather than to rely on second hand knowledge where possible.

Quote:
Anywho... just wanted to chime in and offer some food for thought.


You have definately provide something to mull over and I thank you for that. Smile

Just some background. When I started in magic I specialized in mental magic. All magic at it's core is deceptive, if it wasn't, there would be no reason to watch. The key here, I believe is in how you present it. As a Christian, I have not been given the power by God to read other people's thoughts so I am honest and tell them that I do not have any special power. This does not keep my audiences from being entertained anyway. As Joe T. has pointed out there are ways to use mentalism and still be consistent with your Christian beliefs.

In my opinion the danger comes in attributing special powers to yourself the you do not really have. Doing such would be a lie, which is against Christian precepts. The next question is, can a christian perform magic without lying? I believe most emphatically yes. The performer just has to be careful as to how they present the magic they perform.
x-treem
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Darmoe, what it boils down to for me (and I hope you will agree) there are more charlatans out there in that field who are in it for fraud, out right cheating people of their money and messing with their emotions than for the true entertainment factor.

I truly have no problem with the field of Bizarre/mentalist as long as it is not being used to out and out scam people.

I have not seen a great surge of Christian's honing in on the field as of late, we have had many doing it since the days of Kreskin.

As well this next statement will be agreed upon by some here; it is almost imparitive that we explain to a Church and a Church audience that what we are doing is merely a trick that we learned in a book and that we have no real power, to even get our foot in the door.

Some Church's are so narrow minded they believe that magicians have some type of occultic connection even if they do TT silk vanish, almost as if the days of the Salem witch trials was still fresh in our history.

Your art has long been associated with devil worship that is a hard stereotype to shake as it has been popularized in so many old time movies, that will be harder for you to overcome than for me to shake the "Houdini incarnate," just because I do escapes.Smile

The last time I saw Toby Travis in action was in 1997, at that time he was exposing the old time medium tricks, such as a table levatation using "only one finger" and reproducing the spirit cabinet act. I don't know if his act has changed since then.



I hope that this helps a little.



BTW can you get into your mom's house yet? I read the first few messages in the thread just so I know where this was all coming from. Do you have that trick on video somewhere it would be neat to see (the one she did not like).Smile

X
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