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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Are Mark Lewis offensive comments towards American and Canadian magicians correct in all of his post throughout the following thread? http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&start=0
A few of the comments in Mark Lewis post listed below: "but generally speaking we British are far better than American kids entertainers who from what I have seen just do a magic show." "You Yanks don't have this so consequently have no idea how it works. British children's enterainers do." "And of course Canadians are even worse." "Furthermore it has not gone unnoticed by me that whenever an American kids performer does a show at a British Magic convention they always die a horrible death." "As for Canadian kid show entertainers they are all quite horrendous and even worse than the Americans." "And I should remind all those who are tut-tutting about the US versus Britain thing is that it was Americans starting the war on this thread in the first place. Of course they are always starting wars around the world anyway but perhaps we had better not get into that. I am not the sort to stir up dissension." If Mark Lewis is right with all of his statements, I never knew that. |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
I think he probably is.
That sort of generalization is not offensive, Mike; it's food for thought. That's how it's intended, and that's how you should take it. The Germans make better cars than the Americans. Does it offend you when I say that? |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-25 02:08, stoneunhinged wrote: I plead the 5th. (last word) |
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
This seems a rather sly way of trying to get that topic closed or removed. If you find it offensive and think it should be closed for God's sake say so instead of this mealy mouthed , running to teacher, style.
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-25 02:36, Ray Chelt wrote: Thank you. |
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William Draven Elite user Las Vegas, NV 486 Posts |
Oh just handle this the amercan way, summon a lynch mob and be done with it. Who needs tattle tells, and moderators when you have good old fashoned vigalante justice? /sarcasm
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Mark
Doesn't particularly like American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, Irish, Scotish, and not very many English magicians. Mark is an equal opportunity magician's critic, and as an American magician I find his criticism very funny. He is a sarcastic fellow and his humor apparently is not for everyone. That being said the magic Café sure has sure livened up since his arrival. BTW When Mark recently lectured in London he had threatening phone calls from angry English magicians, so he is kinda universally disliked, and a good friend of mine.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
For what it is worth, the British pantomime tradition is something we just don't have in the US. A lot of performers gain experience performing for children through these types of outlets which don't exist in the US. As anyone who has visited London knows, they have theater tradition in general that is just more inculcated in the culture. Watching Sir Ian McKellan perform Romeo on stage in his prime (which I was very fortunate to do when I studied theater in London for a semester in college) is just something unworldly: something that just can't be pulled off by an american actor. So Mark might have something in thinking that there is a stronger tradition, and more outlets, that would provide British performers more chops when it comes to entertaining children.
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-25 06:39, Al Angello wrote: Yep, and whilst I don't know him I also like to think there is a good deal of irony in some of the things he says . At least I hope so !!! |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Mark Lewis better think twice before he post. He was banned from The Magic Café before from speaking trash. I do not know who decided to let him come back.
I wonder why his post were not deleted for going off topic in the thread. |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Maybe it's that British kids are easier to entertain. I suspect if you raise kids on boiled beef and kidney pie, they'd appreciate anything remotely enjoyable.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-25 08:57, Dynamike wrote: that's more like it Mike. Forthright views and opinions instead of being a sneaky tattle tale. Good on you-- I'm proud of you. |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Mike, if you think about it, Steve Brooks must have put a ton of hard thought into letting him come back. And it must have been his decision.
I suggest you think about how to get along with him, or else you should ignore him. I personally am glad he's back, and think he has much to contribute. If people don't like his sense of humor, they can also ignore him. It seems to me that as long as no one personally attacks another or descends into gutter humor that there is no reason for them to be sent away. An Internet forum isn't a popularity contest, so it doesn't matter how well-liked someone is. I see no reason why thin-skinned people should rule this forum, or any other Internet forum, for that matter. Toughen up, my brother! No American need be ashamed or embarrassed because Mark Lewis is a sarcastic twit. We need to learn to laugh at ourselves. That's a healthy and good thing. And again, as others have pointed out, he may have a point. Are American stage actors, generally speaking of course, on a par with British ones? Probably not. It's back to the German cars thing: some cultural traditions produce some things better than others. Take basketball: Dirk Nowitsky may be one of the best basketball players in the world. But he is an exception. In general, basketball is an American sport, and Americans dominate it and always will dominate it. Further: in general, it's an African American sport. They dominate it. Now, should it offend white people to point that out? Mark isn't saying that you can't be a good children's magician if you are an American. He's saying the British are generally better at it than Americans. Even if he were wrong, it's worth exploring. |
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
I'm not sure I buy the stage acting bit and who is better.
I think Marks main point about the panto tradition is pretty relevant though. This is a stage tradition that is aimed fairly and squarely at the kids with the adult as as secondary consideration. It's predictable, slightly vulgar, silly and funny--what kid wouldn't that appeal to:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adb3Sfo__nE |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Great clip! Thanks.
I could be totally wrong about the stage, of course; but watching British stage actors in films or TV has left me with the impression that the general level is higher in Britain. I suppose it doesn't matter. |
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-25 10:39, stoneunhinged wrote: Yep and where I am anti-biaised against us brits is that, when they translate to TV and film they come across as a bit too ACTORY --- for stage you have to exaggerate it a bit but I think even then I've seen a number of stage productions where I've felt the actors were overdoing it and need to reign themselves in. American performers to me feel a bit more subtle which is where they'll miss the opportunity of learning the very unsubtle skills you need for kids shows. Its an experience thing rather than a skill thing--everybody has got a certain ability but its honed by the circumstances and kids entertainment in the UK , via panto, is something everybody and I mean everybody, is exposed to. |
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*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
I auppose I should answer poor agonised and unhappy Dynamike's question about whose idea it was for me to come back on the magic Café. He says he does not know who allowed me to come back. I shall reveal the name of the very person whose idea it was. His name is Steve Brooks. It was his idea, not mine. I am not sure if Mike has heard of him. I do believe that he has some influence on the running of the Magic Café.
Furthermore I happen to be a V.I.P. while Mike is merely a rather ordinary member of the magic Café. He should therefore bow and scrape before me as befits his lowly status. Once he has learned to grovel before me in a more appropriate manner I shall perhaps deign to educate him on why British children's entertainers are generally better than Americans. For now, I shall merely say that the Japanese are generally better at Origami even though there are experts in the subject in the USA too. It is just that the Japs are better at it. The Russians are generally better at chess than Americans although you did manage to get the odd good chess player in the USA. And with magic the best silent acts to music generally come from the continent of Europe, particularly Holland, the best contact mind readers for some odd reason or other come from Russia and to the subject of this discussion it is perfectly obvious that British children's entertainers are superior to American ones and VASTLY superior to Canadian ones although you are going to get the odd good American one here and there in the same way you do get the good American origami expert or chess player here and there. Children's entertainment comes from the UK in the first place. It is pantomine based and since you Yanks don't even have pantomine we are ahead from the start. We used to have Supreme Magic who were the biggest suppliers of children's entertainment in the world until they sadly evaporated. That also had an influence on the fact that we are generally better. The tradition of children's birthday party magicians actually comes from the UK in the first place. Perhaps Tony James may appear here and explain it all to you. As for good Canadian children's entertainers I can't think of a single one except Tricky Ricky AKA Richard Lyn. But then of course he isn't really Canadian but a Jamaican Chinaman. Richard told me that he learned how to do kid shows the BRITISH way in Jamaica. He studied British methods and British books. Which reminds me. Not a single American or Canadian children's entertainer to my knowledge has read the opening chapter of Open Sesame which is a BRITISH book. It is the foundation of all British children's entertainers and since Yanks and especially Canadians haven't read it they are naturally about 5 steps behind. There are indeed a FEW good American kids entertainers but they are generally those who have been intelligent enough to follow British teaching and the British style. And I can count them on the fingers of two hands just about. ACtually only one hand but I am mentioning two to be on the generous side. But Mike shouldn't be discouraged. If he applies himself to studying British methods with a certain thoroughness he may also one day after several years of effort approach British standards. I wish him luck with it. |
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
Sheesh Mark,
Did you learn your diplomatic skills at a Klingon academy |
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William Draven Elite user Las Vegas, NV 486 Posts |
Ingredients:
1 Can Petrol 1 Pre-existing fire. Instructions: mix the two ingredients together vigorously until desired results achieved. Stand back, and play a violin. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Mistake one, take Mark seriously.
Come on he is having a laugh. Mike, don't break a lot of rock over this. In the end, arguing about who is the best childrens entertainer is just not productive. Why bother?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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