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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Murder by magic bu cris Johnson (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Peter Loughran
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I'm with Donald, I didn't read the ad copy like that at all either. When Cris states that he hasn't immersed himself into that market, I thought it was quite obvious by that statement not all 250 shows were the Murder By Magic.

Also just because you charge a certain amount of money for a show, does not mean that is your income or take home pay!

There are obviously expenses to be paid out of that fee, including hotels, booking agents, fuel costs, transportation rentals, purchasing of props, promotional materials, etc etc.

I remember when I was doing corporate illusion shows(1 hour performances) and I'd charge $3k-$5k a show, and do 2-3 a week. Everyone I knew made the assumption that I was getting 9k-15k a week for working 3 hours...lol making over 100k a year clear...lol, but the truth was, after paying for dancers, assistants, lights and rigging, truck rentals, illusions, agents, traveling expenses, etc etc, I was really only making 30k a year, and had to put in about 16 hours a show with travel, set up, tear down and performance, or about 40-50 hours a week. And like Cris, I got sick of traveling and I personally wanted to settle down and start a family, but still loved magic so I started building illusions instead and creating tricks. I still work 40-50 hours a week but can do it from home, and I make a lot more money building than I ever did performing. But my point is that even if you were averaging huge commissions per show, I think its obvious and just common sense that your actual take home would be a much smaller portion than the actual fees charged. Well they were in my case anyway!

I think Cris has a killer concept! Very refreshing! I think, in the right hands, it is knowledge that can make some very successful! And it just sounds like a blast to perform!

Congrats Cris on a very unique concept. An offering that would definately be very new to clientelle!

Peter.
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Dannydoyle
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Here is the interesting part though guys. If you can get past the hype, if you get past the whole get rich quick nature of the web page, I think the idea is great. Seriously have I said one word about the concept? Back to that in a minute.

Sorry guys but the word "average" means something and you can blow it apart and apply any of your own theories you like it has a meaning. It is what it is.

The whole "murder" concept is old. I have NEVER seen it done with magic, and bet it would be cool provided it is not "over magiced". It is so "in" right now that Lowreys Prim Rib in Las Vegas (a pretty high end place) is running a Halloween night murder mystery dinner. The concept works with murder, so adding magic would be a good idea I should imagine.

But again my problem becomes some of the claims and marketing. Often guys have fantastic ideas, then use one of those cookie cutter web pages to sell it. That is what happens here, a cookie cutter get rich quick web page right down to the copy. It is what it is.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Donald Dunphy
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Quote:
On 2011-07-09 06:51, magicodine wrote:
But what to charge…

On average, I earn about $1850 for a one hour performance of “Murder By Magic.” I’ve occasionally done shows in the $800 range 30 minutes or so away from my house for small groups of people. Quite often, I book the show for the healthy fee of $2495.

In fact, I recently booked the “Murder By Magic” show for the fee of $2495…and then a week later, someone from another company in the same city called me to tell me they had heard about the show from the first company…he then also booked it for the same fee!

Now I know that there are corporate magicians and mentalists out there who command a LOT more than that for a one hour show in the corporate market, but despite performing 250 shows per year (many of them in the corporate market), I have not fully immersed myself into the corporate market.


Quoting from the first post on the thread. This is the section that seems to be causing the most problem.

In this copy, I read that it's an average of $1850 for THAT SPECIFIC SHOW -- Murder by Magic. He even says so in the same sentence. You can't chop off the end of that sentence, and apply $1850 to every single show he does.

In fact, all of the show fees that he quotes ($800, $1850, and $2495) refer to THAT SPECIFIC SHOW.

He also says that he does 250 shows a year, but never says that they are all in the corporate market.

He says that he hasn't fully immersed himself in that market. Which means of the 250 shows, a person really can't assume the majority are corporate shows.

And yet, he says that many are corporate shows in the same sentence. Which I agree is confusing.

(I assume a small percentage of his shows are corporate shows at a corporate fee level. I lean towards reading the emphasis that he doesn't do a lot of them.)

I think his discussion of two $2495 show paydays was a discussion of an extreme high-end booking example (and rare).

- Donald

P.S. I'll also admit that my reading of the copy might be somewhat biased. Here's why. Years ago, Cris sold some info products on school shows, and did teleseminars with Eric Paul. He might have also done some with Brad Ross or Jack Turk. So, when I thought of Cris, I thought of school shows mostly. In reading this new offer, I assumed corporate shows were just another part of that picture, and likely smaller.

Cris even talks about doing school shows in his ad copy (another section)... on weekdays, and 7-8 months of solid work.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Dannydoyle
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Just imagine how much easier it would be if it was said something like this.

"I do about 75 corporate shows a year, and average $800 per performance of Murder by Magic".

Oh what a world if we didn't have to parse words and just give people credit for what they "mean". Do you think that would be a better way to go about it?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Donald Dunphy
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Yes, that wording would have been a better way, in my opinion.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Dannydoyle
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Of course it would have been and it would have been perfectly clear. Now why oh why is it that marketers don't manage to talk simple like that in general?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
James Munton
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Amazing Marketing Guru Literally Spills the Beans

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P.P.P.S. this system is so good the special offer is only available until the automatically generated date below expires:
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Dannydoyle
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Where do I send money? Do you have an 'advanced course'?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Donald Dunphy
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Paul Romhany (aka "comedy" on The Magic Café), reviewed "Murder by Magic" on his vlog.

http://romhanyreport.blogspot.com/2011/0......ily.html

The review of this specific product begins at about 8 minutes 30 seconds into the video.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Dannydoyle
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Again I will say when it gets down to it, I think if you don't "over magic" the concept it is fresh and cool.

I will also hasten to add that it falls well OUT of the "same ol same ol" category for corporate entertainment. That is not a good thing, it is a FANTASTIC thing.

My problems were with the way it was sold.

I will also add this in closing. IF I was to have to jump into the corporate market, something EXACTLY like this is what I would be looking for to sort of set myself apart from the pack. I can see an enterprising young magician really taking this idea and moving very far very quickly with it. My problem has never been with the concept.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Donald Dunphy
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One of the reasons I shared the link was to show Paul sharing info on the product (he also talks about WHY Cris is selling this info).

Perhaps if Cris' sales copy didn't appeal to some, then Paul's vlog might appeal to some. Here's one person telling you about this product in their own words... here's another person telling you about this product in their own words.

Performers sell in many different ways. I know that some ways appeal to me more than others. But I do try to observe the ways that don't appeal to me personally.

Does straight-forward language work better, or does flowery, over the top, drawn out, sales-y language work better, when selling? Is exaggeration ever ok (and at what point does something become exaggeration)? What about guarantees? What builds trust, when you write or speak? Is it being genuine? Is it selling hard? Where does modesty fit in? Is it giving lots of information? Is it being consise? Is it being brutally honest? What builds a better relationship with your potential buyer?

I prefer straight forward and somewhat brief, as long as it's not rude. I don't think I'm as wordy as some people... on the other hand, I've had people call me wordy.

However, I also understand the need to convey enthusiasm, because selling is about emotion. We make an emotional decision to buy, and justify it with logic.

- Donald

P.S. We get that his sales copy didn't appeal to some people. On the other hand, I'm sure that it did appeal to some other people, and he had sales.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Dannydoyle
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I bet this product could sell itself.

That is not an insult or flippant or a comment on how anything should or shouldn't be written. Just saying that the product itself is strong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Paul Romhany
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Just came across this post. I generally stay away from reading long posts on the Café simply because I don't have the time so not sure what has gone on prior to my post, but wanted to drop in here with my own personal notes from having done this show for over a year.


I booked another gig today for my Murder By Magic at the largest Art Deco Festival in the World for February. They LOVED the concept and I didn't even need to sell it to them that much. They 'got' it straight away. Actually this type of show would be great for theatre performances and my cruise ship agent is now looking at booking this on cruise ships. They also thought the concept was fantastic as the audience become part of a crime scene. What is funny is they all respond with, "oh, like the Mentalist TV show?"

It really is an incredible concept for a show, especially for the corporate market. Probably the best investment I've ever made in respect to a show concept. I have shows booked through until next year here in NZ at really great fees - I charge $3500 for this show and have been performing this now in New Zealand since my return. I took the concept to the leading talent agency here and they were so excited about it they have just released it to all of their clients as THE show to have for Christmas. They are doing all the work for me in selling the show.

The corporate market LOVE this show because the Murder Mystery theme is so popular. I started off with Cris's original script and routines, but over a period of time have changed it and added my own personal touches and effects - so it's changed but the initial concept from Cris.

From personal experience I would say this is the best investment I've made, and it's given me an income that I wouldn't have had before. Cris gives his entire corporate show away here, and if you buy this I know he'll be happy to talk to you about it and other ideas. I've sent him several e-mails asking if he thinks certain effects would work and he's been very open and honest.

Just my two cents worth.
"life is like a movie ... you write your own ending" - Kermit the Frog

http://extrememagicmakeover.com

http://www.paulromhany.com
Norden
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It's posts like this that keep me off the Café. Thank you Paul for the review - based on a working pros opinion I will invest in this product.
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