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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Lol... Ah yes, the arcane and esoteric references! Not really interested in that.
In general we can read WAY too much into some of these things (and write way too much as well!) As Freud was alleged to have said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". Yes, we have our ticks and idiosyncrasies. Isn't that ok? In general I don't snap, blow, cast a shadow or anything else for most effects. I do remember a moment where I did and it was an important beat in what I did. It was a card effect where I had just shown the deck and was about to reveal the finale. I brought up the cards to eye level... slowly brought my other hand up and snapped my fingers, froze then waited about 5 seconds before the reveal of the entire deck. It as a wonderful theatrical moment as they wondered what was going to happen, then they knew that something MUST have happened at that instant that my snap signified... and had to wait (rising interest/building suspense) until the reveal. The moment I wanted to reinforce after the fact is for them to think "What could have happened in that instant that caused the effect to happen?" I'm reminded of Steve Martin in speaking of his reason for creating the "Flydini act"... He just said "I wanted people to ask themselves, What's going on in his pants?" It's making the audience think then controlling what their perceptions tell them in a way that creates wonder. Orchestrating their consciousness in an almost imperceptible way to allow them to drift into the state of amazement. That is our art. The rest are just techniques to get there.
Ray Pierce
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-21 20:30, Ray Pierce wrote: A robot learning to lie is hardly off topic or impertinent. What it knew to be a human trait suddenly became an option. And the audience laughed. And still laughs. But the toaster... has other plans. When there's a thing that might instruct - may as well go for a fun illustration. smee, smee, smee.. gggggggg Think certifiable conviction delivered with congruence.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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slyhand Inner circle Good ole Virginia 1908 Posts |
Samantha wiggled her nose.
Jeanie folded her arms and nodded. Potter waved his wand. If the magic just happened there would be less anticipation and drama. We all bought into it.
I am getting so tired of slitting the throats of people who say that I am a violent psychopath.
Alec |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
How many semi professional magicians does it take to over think a topic and beat a horse to death, and keep beating it?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-21 22:53, Dannydoyle wrote: a circle of cliches is not a sign of cogent thinking. nor is a tribute to Mavis Bacon a sign of writing skillz. so long as those who don't want to know are willing to type spells of ignorance their audiences will form the obvious conclusions about the nature of their performing characters and since so many don't have one ... the performers.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
I am constantly inspired by deep thinking when it leads to growth and excellence for others. I have seen so much of that on this board and it fuels me. I am also constantly wearied by excessively deep thinking when it becomes an exercise to attempt self aggrandizement for one's on benefit. I've seen a lot of that on these boards as well. One is selfish, one is selfless. That's not to say that all great thinkers were doers... many just inspired others. It also sometimes reaches a point of diminishing return. There are times when the more we analyze and talk, the less productive we become. I see way too much of that on here as well.
I'll readily admit that I'm guilty of everything I'm discussing on here and It makes it easy to see it from others as I understand it in myself. When does discourse cease to be productive and simply becomes excess?
Ray Pierce
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djurmann Inner circle thinks time to practice and stop writing 1481 Posts |
And sometimes a pipe is just a pipe
Quote:
On 2011-07-21 20:30, Ray Pierce wrote: Actually for me I think you may have it. The snap or whatever is important....but only if there is a pause after. What I am getting at is the theatricality that makes it work (or not work). Thank you very much. Danny |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-22 00:42, Ray Pierce wrote: Yes indeed this IS my point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
... IMHO when folks stop asking "what do I need to do in order to..." , shift the discussion into vagaries and start using terms from fields in which they are even less experienced than magic.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
IN my opinion it also starts when people who don't really spend that much time on a stage start to pontificate about it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-22 18:48, Jonathan Townsend wrote: I like that point! I really agree about the "shift into vagaries" but "clear thought" (which is usually my goal) doesn't necessarily require experience. Leonardo da Vinci shifted easily from one field to another with an ease reserved for more experienced professionals due to his clear thought. Getting into a debate over other's relative levels of experience (which is frequently self evident) doesn't really assist in anyone's eventual learning. It might make us feel better about ourselves but hopefully that isn't the goal. Communication isn't about speaking, pontificating or garrulousness ... but about being understood by the specific listener. The better the communicator, the more the clear thought will be received and understood by the most people. When I'm working with advanced professionals in specific fields, we all use shorthand to facilitate speedy communication and get our points across effectively. To use those same terms in communication with the lay public would be less than effective and potentially even reek of pomposity. I know it's all a matter of intent but it makes you wonder what the intent really is of some posters. Mine is to find more answers for myself in the service of helping others. Quote:
On 2011-07-22 20:02, Dannydoyle wrote: lol... there is that, but again, there have been great thinkers in history that were simply consumed with thought that drove advancement and progress. There have also been a lot of "thinkers" who never did anything productive out of fear and other issues. lol...I lived in the 70's and remember many of these types! They spent their lives stoned and tripping and actually thought they were brilliant at the time. Again, for me it all comes down to intent... but to each his own
Ray Pierce
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-22 20:02, Dannydoyle wrote: When I have theater questions or scripting questions I ask someone who works there. When it comes to ideas that might work in a certain way in a script ... that seems okay to toss around here. Like carrying around a small bag of Philip Pullman type dust or a pocket full of tomorrow that evaporates when stuff that's now gets soaked in its future... base story work seems okay here. The details of scripting and blocking and selling the truth of those notions by way of character behavior (just how would you handle a wand if it were loaded, or woofle(tm) dust if it was so strong that a pinch could dissolve a coin?) ... back to the actors and directors. Rather than brag about my lack of shame asking folks in the theater for help - here's an idea that's almost in the working: Chink-a-chink where the trick is right out of Peter Pan - you swap the shadows of your left and right hands so when you wave your hands over the coins they move to follow the shadows. I've been procrastination on using a slow display and either a gaff or just my pinky to show reversed shadows for a moment at the start of the action rather than just using the line as script. Thoughts? Okay back to over-thinking the stuff I use to distract myself from doing the stuff that should be obvious to me and surely must be obvious to audiences based on their reactions...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
All I mean is there is thinking and doing. Two distinct skills.
Often things that seem so great on paper, or so great when they are bloviated about on the internet, in practice don't work out quite the way one may hope. Just like any great chef must cook at least one edible meal, performance in the end should be done for people. Not simply bandied about in forums and magic shops and club meetings.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Doesn't that go without saying?
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Even if you're just showing a routine to a peer magician who brought their wife and maybe the kids -it's time to play the trick for discussion to the non-magicians and watch carefully how the reactions come as expected or as something else. If you engage them first you can get what looks like feedback from magic fans and lots of comments about things that look different than what they've seen others do. Sometimes they even talk a low form of shop- about methods and concealment based upon what they've figured out from other people's work. Sometimes their stories are better.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-22 23:04, Jonathan Townsend wrote: ;) |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-22 22:51, Andrew Musgrave wrote: You would think, but magic seems to be one of those areas of performance where it is not so obvious.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
It sends little chilly fingers up and down my spine to think that there might be a magician who conceives of a routine and just does it professionally without testing it. The idea is creepy.
Brad Burt
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-23 10:00, Brad Burt wrote: I can understand your feeling. It really depends on the level of mastery of each performer. When many artists begin painting, they will plan out each piece, sketch it many times to get the right composition and balance, and after all of those steps are satisfactory, will they begin painting. How can a master just pick up a brush and start on the canvas? It's simply because they might have already gone through those other steps in their mind. Yes, they are just that good. They think at a much different level then others do and can bring all those years of experience to life in a much more efficient way. It's the same in many fields, yet most of us are not masters. We have to hypothesize, test and retest every idea to get the results we need to move on to performance. Masters can form an idea solely in the mind and know if it will work. Now that being said... there is still a long process of mastery of that particular effect which must be done on stage in front of an audience not in rehearsal... but that's another topic!
Ray Pierce
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ViolinKing Veteran user a loyal user has no more than 307 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-21 17:03, Jonathan Townsend wrote: JONATHAN TOWNSEND: I DID read ALL of the posts. Do not throw accusations around. If you want to accuse me of something, say this. "Reading the preceding posts will not help you understand a thing." Because that may be accurate. What I'm guilty of is mis-recalling who said it first. But I still haven't got a clue what it means. And please, if your next statement to me is an accusation rather than something to help me understand, either don't post it, or don't expect people like me to stick around in this part of the Café. ~Nick |
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