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NJJ
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I'm interested in starting a general discussion of PBOTH.

To kick things off, a little survey...

Toilet Paper or Tissues?

Vanishing Balls (as Slydini did) or Guessing Game?

Sitting down spectator or standing up?

How often do you get 'busted' by the spectator?
Dr_J_Ayala
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I personally have done this for a long time, and I have used both toilet paper and tissues, as well as tissue paper and newspaper. I cannot say as I have a preference of the materials, but I have found that both newspaper and tissue paper tend to stay balled up better than the other two. Of course, the type (read: NOT brand) of tissue you use also effects this aspect as well, whether it is plain, double or tri-ply, coated with lotion, etc.

I perform the Slydini routine with a few changes here and there to make it work for the venue and the situation in which I am performing. I prefer this to the guessing game because in my style, there is more punch to the effect and it goes over much better.

The spectator that I am doing this routine with is what decides whether they are standing or sitting - I have no preference in this sector. If a spectator is much taller than me even when sitting down (rarely happens), then I just adjust to throwing over the shoulder or around their side.

I have never been caught in performing this effect because of the techniques I use. I also perform this effect using other objects such as salt shakers, fruits and vegetables, goblets filled with water and things like that - all of which require an assistant but are very effective. Gregory Wilson does some work with this on his DVD, Gregory Wilson In Action Vol. 2, and I believe it is called Head Trip.

I look forward to hearing input from other performers on this subject. Great idea here, Nicholas!
NJJ
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Thanks for contributing.

HEre are a few performance videos to get people's creative juices flowing

A very angry German dressed as a cop (Michael Stern) http://youtu.be/AK6dJg8dRVM

Lance Burton in a funny routine with a small boy (paper balls starts around 2:30) http://youtu.be/4siU62xEYiA

The master http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW6oQZc_c80

Steve Spill http://youtu.be/t1dyJCwI4ow
NJJ
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I've played with the idea of telling the spectator that 'the reason why the audience is laughing is because they saw me put the ball over here in my pocket', producing a duplicate ball from my pocket which I add to to make the larger ball.
Pete Biro
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You need to see today's MASTER.... Armando Lucero.
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NJJ
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Has he released his work on DVD or in print?
Dr_J_Ayala
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I do no know what he has released at all, but I know Armando has a banner here on the Café, somewhere near the very bottom of the Forum Index page. Check it out - you may find something there.

I remember the Lance Burton performance when it aired and I like the routine the way he put it together. Slydini, of course, is my favourite performer of this out of all the ones I have seen doing this, including Armando. I still say that the version from Armando is absolutely brilliant!
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There is a video of Armando somewhere, that's where I saw it, but didn't save the link. Sorry.
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Bill Palmer
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I used this at Scarborough Faire. I had a kid up from the audience, and I performed it with a little red silk. It was presented as a "magic depends on your point of view" kind of thing. My assistant would snag the silk when it landed on the stage, and I would "borrow" another one from him. It was not a long routine. However it had an interesting punch line. I explained to the audience that I would have fooled them as well, then I did the typical TT vanish, explaining that the trick had looked like this to the child. I would make a "toss over the head" move and the audience would turn to see where the hanky went.

I then retrieved it from the sleeve of a spectator.

It was great fun.

Turns out that Gary Darwin wrote something similar to this up a while back.
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Noel M
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When I was a teenager I had the privelge of being Slydini's "victim" for this effect. My sense of what type of paper to use depends on sound. In a very quiet setting tissue paper can be heard with a thump or crackle. I guess toilet paper is used because it's quieter. I remember seeing David Copperfield do this years ago and he used an assistant to catch the balls in a net. I assumed it was to prevent noise. (or was if because he used eggs. I can't remember. )

I have no recollection of hearing Slydini's paper balls land. They were tissue paper but I think that laughter and misdirection kept me from hearing a thing.
Dr_J_Ayala
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Quote:
On 2011-08-02 12:23, Bill Palmer wrote:
I used this at Scarborough Faire. I had a kid up from the audience, and I performed it with a little red silk. It was presented as a "magic depends on your point of view" kind of thing. My assistant would snag the silk when it landed on the stage, and I would "borrow" another one from him. It was not a long routine. However it had an interesting punch line. I explained to the audience that I would have fooled them as well, then I did the typical TT vanish, explaining that the trick had looked like this to the child. I would make a "toss over the head" move and the audience would turn to see where the hanky went.

I then retrieved it from the sleeve of a spectator.

It was great fun.

Turns out that Gary Darwin wrote something similar to this up a while back.


That is great! You would be amazed at what people will believe some days, with or without direction (or misdirection) of any kind... Mind if I steal that presentation? Also, if you have a resources for the Darwin version, please do share.


Quote:
On 2011-08-02 13:33, Noel M wrote:
When I was a teenager I had the privelge of being Slydini's "victim" for this effect. My sense of what type of paper to use depends on sound. In a very quiet setting tissue paper can be heard with a thump or crackle. I guess toilet paper is used because it's quieter. I remember seeing David Copperfield do this years ago and he used an assistant to catch the balls in a net. I assumed it was to prevent noise. (or was if because he used eggs. I can't remember. )

I have no recollection of hearing Slydini's paper balls land. They were tissue paper but I think that laughter and misdirection kept me from hearing a thing.


You are very lucky! In fact, I have used newspaper and tissue paper more often than anything else, and the sound of them landing is covered by ambient noise most of the time. I have never once had a person turn around to see what the (minimal) noise was. On the occasion that I knew something was going to be obviously loud, I would clap my hands together for the vanish at the moment it hit the ground, and that bit of sound misdirection never failed to cover sufficiently.
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Well, what has always perplexed me most is how to end the routine. At present, I let them "GUESS" which hand the big ball in the end is in, and say something like, "That's great. There is no fooling you! Let's give him a hand!" and then as I say that I have a small packet of tp stuck on the back of the chair, I grab it and stick it on the back of his shirt or jacket as I congratulate them and point back to their seat and it unfurls behind them 10-12 feet as they are going back to their seat. Now, I don't usually like tricks that in any way makes fun of a volunteer, but this seems to work pretty well.

Watch steals can make a good ending, but I don't know how to do them. If anyone else has a good ending it could be interesting.
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Dr_J_Ayala
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I have used a watch steal occasionally. The one thing that I have done in the past is similar to what you said: I would have a big ball of wadded-up paper, matching that which is used in the routine, and attached with tape to the back of the chair. At the end of the routine, I would shake their hand with the other going behind the chair and secretly attaching the wad to their back, then resting my hand on their shoulder or cupping their hand with it. It does not so much as make fun of the spectator, but it is a comedic kicker ending in the way that they think, "Hey, where did this come from and how did it get there?" They are always surprised to sit down in their seat again only to feel something there...

I love what Lance Burton did: After the Paper Balls Over the Head routine, when he took the little boy back to the box where he was to find his missing shoe, they kicked a bunch of paper balls out of the way and Lance says, "Hey Tommy, just ignore these little paper balls..." Of course this would not really work for adults as much/easily as it does with kids, but it is still really funny.
NJJ
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Watching Lance Burton's routine you can see that the entire routine is designed around making the kid look silly or be put in an uncomfortable position. He destroys his shoe, makes him hold a live chicken, performs a sucker vanish and so on.

BUT, because he is a gentleman, the kid loves it and the audience does too.

Tricks don't make people feel silly, MAGICIANS make people feel silly.
mahucharn
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I believe that Gregory Wilson has some stuff about this on his DVD "On The Spot"
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Dave V
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I still like Peter Gross' version of this using toilet paper. I can't find it on youtube but I think he has it on his website

http://funnymagic.com/videos.html
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Bill Palmer
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Judy Carter was one of the first to use a roll of toilet paper for this.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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limkris
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[quote]On 2011-08-01 23:04, Nicholas J. Johnson wrote:
I'm interested in starting a general discussion of PBOTH.


Vanishing Balls (as Slydini did) or Guessing Game?


I think this is a very interesting question.
The vanishing is more magical but requires more misdirection of the performer.
The guessing game gives the perfomer more (time) midsdirection for the over the head vanish.

A have seen very few performers top the magical qualities of the performance or Slydini.

Was the comical presentation of Avner already mentioned?
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2011-08-02 13:33, Noel M wrote:
When I was a teenager I had the privelge of being Slydini's "victim" for this effect. My sense of what type of paper to use depends on sound. In a very quiet setting tissue paper can be heard with a thump or crackle. I guess toilet paper is used because it's quieter. I remember seeing David Copperfield do this years ago and he used an assistant to catch the balls in a net. I assumed it was to prevent noise. (or was if because he used eggs. I can't remember. )

I have no recollection of hearing Slydini's paper balls land. They were tissue paper but I think that laughter and misdirection kept me from hearing a thing.


This depends on what you are calling "tissue paper." Klennex™ is soft and makes no noise. The same is true of Delsey™. Sometimes, Slydini used paper napkins. They usually make very little noise.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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