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curtgunz Special user Only 99% of users have more than 784 Posts |
I'm trying to get established in an area I've just moved to. There are no full-time clowns or magicians in a town of about 100,000. There are less than half a dozen doing anything even part time.
I contacted Chick-fil-A about doing work on their Tue. Kid's Night. They told me they could not pay me but they would let me pass out business cards as I performed and they would put a card in all the drive through orders while I was there. I am torn. Part of me thinks, "No way!!! I do quality work and I KNOW that I would help their bottom line. They are trying to take advantage of me. I KNOW Chick-fil-A can pay because I've worked for them in another city." Part of me thinks, "Well, right now on Tuesdays I'm not doing other gigs. It would get my name and face out there and it could work into some birthday parties. As soon as a paying gig comes along or when I get tired of it I can just walk away." I don't think there is one right or wrong answer, but let me ask you, which part of me should I listen to? If it were you, would you take the gig?
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Matthew W Inner circle New York 2456 Posts |
The want to use you to bring people into the restaurant in hopes of them buying food. You should be getting something. $50 a night, $75, something. Not free.
If they don't want to pay you, the party store sells clown costumes and balloons. The manager can give it a try.
-Matt
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dearwiseone Inner circle Portland, OR 1143 Posts |
Great question, I'm sure there will be many responses!
I would not take the gig. I don't perform for free, except to charities and/or causes or people I believe in or have a desire to do a free show for. You wouldn't perform for a random John Smith who calls on the phone, so why chick-fil-a? What if John Smith asked you to come perform on a Wednesday night, when you're "not doing other gigs?" In my opinion, chick-fil-a has plenty of money as a for-profit company, so I don't see the reason behind performing for free. If it benefited my family, maybe. If it benefited a cause that I really believed in, maybe. If the manager was my best friend and needed someone to fill in for one night, maybe. If they were going to pay me, maybe. It seems there might be better ways to get birthday shows than people coming to chick-fil-a on a Tuesday night who may or may not be in your target market. In a town of 100,000 or more, you should have better, more targeted (effective) marketing opportunities. The last reason I wouldn't perform for free for a restaurant on a Tuesday night is because I have too much to do! I don't have enough time as it is! If you're sitting at home with nothing to do, twittling your thumbs, I guess you should go for it! Otherwise, polish your routines, learn new ones, work on your website, re-design your marketing materials, etc. Are you attempting to go full-time in this new town? If so, people have mentioned James Munton's zero to booked solid course. He mentions having moved to a new town and apparently shares what he did to get work. I haven't tried it personally, but you can find several posts about it here on the Café. Best Wishes! |
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
Generally when you work for free you will find that because they have not invested in you they will treat you and your service with much less concern than if they invested dearly in you. I had to experience this the hard way on more than one occasion. It is most unlikely that this would be the best use of your time to book future shows. I did purchase James Mutton's "Zero to Booked Solid" and found great value for me. You can send him a private message and ask him to share his opinion on why his program would work for you. I did, and he gave me specific examples based upon viewing my website and seeing the type of show I have. There are also many books on marketing available at libraries. Book Yourself Solid is directed towards entertainers. If your library does not have it you may be able to get them to add it.
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
If you do not feel comfortable doing it for free, do not do it. People in the restaurant will notice you are uncomfortable. It will make you look bad.
One thing you can try doing is street busking an hour or two. That way you will be passing out cards and making some cash. Detroit is the hardest hit area in the country when it comes to the bad economy because of so many factories workers lost their jobs when the companies shipped jobs over seas. I tried buying material to send out marketing kits. I had to put in a lot of money and time for that. It still was not working. I found the secret with getting calls deals with my website. Website marketing is my answer. I bet it will help you too. Don't go to the prospects, wait until they come to you. Learn the secrets of SEO. It helped me out a lot. I did a search for "Longview" and "Tyler" "Texas clowns". Your website did not show on the first page with the others. My new website is already on the front page of "Oakland County Magician" because of all the support The Magic Café gave me. |
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
How are your bookings the rest of the week?
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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misterillusion Special user Roseville, California 748 Posts |
I have done quite a few free shows in the past and I can't remember any business those shows ever generated for me. I no longer do free shows unless it is an occasional one for my church, or a family gathering. Now, when I get a call requesting a free show, I tell the caller that I will do a show at a drastically reduced rate to cover my cost, but with the contingency that I will cancel if another full-paid booking requests that same date. I have had no takers for that so far...which is fine with me.
In my opinion, your time would be better spent making cold calls to prospective clients and following up with an in-person visit or mailing your brochure. My experience is that networking and referrals yield the best results for expanding business. Another good use of your time would be to join the local Chamber of Commerce and start attending their events in order to network Best of luck to you, Charlie |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
If you have a Chick-Fil-A there must be a Pizza Hut in the area, go see them, they accept the walk-a-round magic more then any chain restaurant I know of, and pay $75.00 for 4 hours of performing. Then call back the manager and tell them you will be at Pizza Hut every Tuesday, come by for a look.
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
I treat every situation differently. I am not of the mindset that "I will never work for free." I think that is following an ideology rather than using your brain and analyzing each unique set of circumstances. Also, I am all for trying new ideas. With that in mind, I would consider doing this if I was new to an area and trying to get my name out. The business cards in the bag might be gold for you, if they will place your card in ALL orders ALL the time. If they will only promote you during your 2 hour gig, I would take a pass. I think I would also ask if they would allow a poster or two in the place.
Consider that others here are saying they won't do this based on THEIR situation. That's fine, but you won't really know if YOU don't try it. If ONE night the Chic-Fil-A books ONE show, you are probably ahead of the game, as you can likely make more money at a birthday gig than a restaurant. How will you know? Try it for a few weeks and see if it generates any shows. Look at it this way: Your paycheck from this place (if you were being paid) would probably not cover the cost of an ad in a Parents' magazine. Yet, people here would gladly work the restaurant, get paid, buy the ad, and hope it brings in work. Think of this was cutting out the middleman. If working the restaurant gets a gig, it's a good deal. You will not know if you don't try it. I would be reluctant to do this long-term, but if you are doing nothing on a Tuesday night anyway, it's worth a shot. |
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SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
Sit at home…
--Sit at home MARKETING your butt off, get on the phone! The time giving away stuff is valuable time getting word out and getting real gigs. --Free shows almost always lead to more free shows, rarely valuable bookings. --Free shows water down the market and eventually take shows away from others and you, respect the workers in our area! --Charlie Checker's book suggestion is golden! --If you have a charity you are 100% committed to do a show for them once a year. Walt |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
First off I would not be that offended. You came to them, they did not call you and ask you to work for free. NOBODY is trying to take advantage of you. If they do not think your services are worth paying for, and you know they can because you have done work for that company in another region then I am afraid that the problem may be in your sales pitch. Now you can get angry about this and call me all sorts of names, or you can think about it for a second.
I can already see one of the flaws in your thinking, and if you have used it in the pitch it may have been part of the problem. "I know I can help their bottom line" is what gets most guys into trouble. Obviously you have never worked in a restaurant with spread sheets before as an owner or manager. I say this not to be mean, but to educate. You can not point to a line on a spread sheet in which you can claim credabily that you have raised it. It can not be done and when most magicians make this silly pitch the owners eyes glaze over and they can't wait till the conversation is over. It is what it is. Also here is the real bottom line numbers. Restaurants, even chains do not operate on very large margins. They have to sell between 4 and 5 TIMES the amout of money paid out to be even! This means if you cost a mere $150 a night, they have to sell a whole lot of pizza JUST TO BE EVEN. That is between $600 and $750 depending on a host of things, must be sold simply because YOU are there. WOW what a claim! Certainly you can see how the logic falls apart that you help the bottom line right? It never holds up to scrutiny. Magicians often figure they are worth even more than this and in reality the more you charge, the more of a liability you are. Now if you want to claim you can become a vital part of the ambiance and make it an environment in which people feel welcome and will want to make it a regular place and one they recomend and tell their friends about and you can be part of an overall decor you have a point to make. As for if you take the gig, that is up to you and whichever answer you come up with is right. While it may not be right for some, it may be exactly right for others. As you point out there is no right or wrong answer in general only in how it spacificaly impacts you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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M Sini Inner circle 1359 Posts |
I'm surprised this Chick-fila will not pay you. There are 2 magicians in my area that each work multiple Chick-filas. One works at 2 different locations, one on the second Tuesday of each month and the other on the 4th Tuesday of each month (I believe the other guy has a similar deal). I know they are both paid to be there (though I have no clue how much). The restaurant advertises them as well on their flyers and on the sign out front. I believe they are also given free meal coupons.
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
I was talking to a magician acquaintance of mine who decided to take a retail job to keep the rent paid. I suggested that he make marketing himself his full time job. I pointed out that the ten dollars he is making per hour meant that if he did one show for $250 it was the same as 25 mind numbing hours of retail.
He said he wanted a "sure thing" -- which explains why he is selling jeans for a living and doing the very occasional show on weekends. That's okay. More for me. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Business is not for everyone. This is why I try to explain what a restaurant owner is thinking when someone says "increase the bottom line".
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
I agree with much of what has been said here, but to me it's all about how you want to look at this, your approach, and what you want to get out of it.
First, the facts...(see Danny's post above) - if you do take this type of deal you will NEVER be able to get any money from this client. Never think "well it could get my foot in the door, and once they see...I'll be able to at least get some kind of pay". It rarely, if ever works out that way. They have no investment in you and will never perceive you as that type of entity. With that said, there (in my mind) are to reasons for considering a gig like this 1.) income, money for your services (which you know is out of the question), and 2.) advertising and promotion. As it's been said there will be no money form this client, so they only possible reason or benefit for consideration is exposure in your new town, to generate interest and awareness, and to try to drum up outside business as a result of your efforts at this restaurant. Do you do kids parties? If so, the advertising and promotional benefits could work to your advantage. First you keep your performing chops sharp by working in your new area. Next, if you are allowed to handout promo materials directly to their customers, it can be a very direct, in person form of personal selling of you and your services, to promote your web site, and utilize other promotional aspects such as a kids coloring sheet, creating a birthday or kids club (mailing list), sell magic classes or products available on your web site, etc. Thirdly, it gives you a performance base that allows you to go to other restaurants in town and say "I'm currently booked at Chick-Fil-A on Tuesday and I still have availabilites on Mon., Wed., Thurs, etc. You needn't tell them you're doing it for free as it gives the impression you are getting your normal rate of pay from them, it must be working well, so they might be willing to give it a try. My point is there are other benefits to an opportunity like this other than just paid income from the client. You'd have to weigh the promotional aspects and possibilities, and the costs incurred if you were to do this and promote yourself as you would like, and other factors to determine it's feasibility. My other question is what else are you doing to establish yourself in your new town? If you have to pay for advertising in a kids or parents magazine or other local advertising that costs you money that could be hit or miss, maybe that money would be better spent with the Chick-Fil-A deal as a more cost-effective means of promotion. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
A good example of what some are saying on this forum is, a restaurant manager once asked, if I put your name on my marque/sign, will that fill the restaurant with business. Being you are new to the area, I believe that answers the question.
The reason Tuesday nite is so popular with restaurants is because this is traditionally their 'slowest night' and they want to increase the volume for this day business. |
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curtgunz Special user Only 99% of users have more than 784 Posts |
Hey everyone,
Thank you. I am not going to be one of the guys who posts and then argues about every response. I do want to emphasize and clarify, I contacted Chick-fil-A. They told me they could not pay me and suggested this as an alternative. I just want to be clear that they did not call me asking me to work for free. I want to be fair to them even in a forum they will probably never read. I tend to agree with the majority here and tend to want to reject the offer (if I was sold on this being the greatest publicity ever I would not have posted here.) Dannydoyle, I was not offended by them in any way. The marketing director was very kind and spent time with me instead of a quick, "We're not interested" and hanging up the phone. You are also right, I have not worked in the restaurant industry. I didn't use the words, "bottom line" in my pitch and now I will try to always avoid that landmine. Dynamike, I like and respect what you said about websites. I've check yours out and you walk the walk. I have work to do there. Thank you. Charliecheckers, I am probably twice your age but I want to be like you when I "grow up." You are mature and a good business man. From what I've read you are entering college in the fall. That's amazing. SpellbinderEntertainment, I like the idea of doing a free charity event once a year. I like it not from a marketing standpoint but from the standpoint of being a decent human being and good citizen. Thanks for the reminder to me and everyone. dearwiseone, Thanks for the advice about James Munton. I've already emailed him. Misterillusion, you mentioned the Chamber of Commerce. I've been looking into that. Do you get work directly from your membership in your local chamber? It seems like a good way to network and I would bet if done right could lead to corporate work, grand openings, and lots of other things. Matthew W, you make a good point. Quality entertainment is a skill that has to be developed. People tend to think they can be a clown because of the costume more so than being a magician because a magician is obviously skill based and people can forget that ALL quality entertainment is skill based. David Thiel, You are right. My last sure thing was a job where the boss looked me in the eye and said I would NOT be laid off. Less than six months later 80% of the staff was laid off (including me). The only sure thing is that whatever you do for a living you are going to have to work smarter than ever just to make it so it should be something you enjoy. Wmhegbli, good suggestion about Pizza Hut. I focused on Chick-fil-A because of past experience but I will look into Pizza Hut. M Sini, you are right, Chick-fil-A does hire and pay entertainers. Starrpower and Mindpro, you did a great job of summing up the arguments for taking this gig. I have been thinking all of the things you said in your post, that's why I posted here instead of giving a quick "No way" because there are A LOT of negatives to performing for free but you do mention some positives. EVERYONE, thank you for your good comments and advice. I know you guys have your own careers and marketing to work on and I know that replying to me took some time and effort. I appreciate it.
Click for Free Resources for Performers
YouTube channel specifically for family & kids show magicians. Click -- You need to subscribe. |
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Well I woudl like to throw my 2 cents in here.
first I have 14 years inthe restaurant biz as a manager prior to going full time as a magician. so I think I have a bit of experience here on the subject. first as most of the time DannyDoyle is right on the money with trying to sell yourself as some one that will fill the place and move that bottom line will never work. YOU the entertainer is NOT what is important at the restaurant the FOOD is the most important thing. now you the entertainer can certainly add to the dinning experience and that is basically what you are an addition to what they already do. much of what has been said prior to my post is very good so I will not beat a dead horse here but will mention some thing that I did not see mentioned if you really want to work restaurants don't go for the chains. let me rephrase that you can hit the chains too but the money is in the single restaurants the ones that the owner is actually working at. the small restaurant down the street the little italian restaurant around the corner these are the places that will be willing to spend the money and take more of a chance with you. the chains answer to a higher power and have very limited Slush money. with the smaller restaurant you can get time with the owner and work out the deal directly with him. I would also mention this that some times I work deals with restaurants to not only pay me but include a free meal and discount coupons that I can give to other clients. one place I did printed my name and pic on the menu paid me just $25 less then my asking fee BUT instead of turning the deal down I pitched the idea of them gicing me one free meal each night I worked there and printed up coupons Biz card size that said guest of hilarious magic of sam sandler get one free dessert with purchase of any entree or 10% of your bill. now I also saved up my free meals and used them to take clients out to dinner or some times gave them away to clients or friends. there is a lot of ideas out there you just need to get creative. hope this helps and good luck with you gig. sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Ultimately, only you can decide this. Personally I have never worked for free in a restaurant for more than a 2-hour demo. And hind sight being 20/20, I think even then I was taken advantage of. An astute manager should be able to tell within 10 minutes if you are right for his restaurant.
Why don’t you make a deal. Tell them you’ll work for free for a period of three months with the understanding you can: 1. Accept tips 2. Pass out your business card 3. Receive a letter of recommendation on their company letter head. Then work you butt off! Make yourself an invaluable part of their operation. Invite every client back to the restaurant. Go out of your way to be cooperative with the wait staff. Always be on time and professional. At the end of three months keep to your word, Either get paid or take your experience and glowing letter of recommendation to their competition!
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
I might add that I have never worked a restaurant for free ... not even for a "free trial."
I still think that, under the conditions outlined, it could be beneficial. |
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