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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Labor Day! Not such a great holiday for everyone (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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If really doesn't matter if the representatives reflect some union members' views about non-labor issues. The purpose of the holiday is to honor labor.
landmark
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On 2011-08-31 00:03, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-30 23:18, landmark wrote:
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On 2011-08-30 21:04, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Guilt By Association: It's OK When It's Not One of Us. Catchy.


So clearly, the issue was not guilt by association, but guilt. And last I looked, it was called Labor Day, not Anti-Labor Day.

Perhaps, folks can look up the origins of Labor Day--and why in the US, unlike the rest of the world, it's held in September.

Well, Canada does the same. And Labour Day is celebrated in October in New Zealand and parts of Australia. And so on.

Historically, Labour (or Labor) Day in the U.S. and Canada actually predates the creation of the International Workers' Day (i.e. May 1 holiday).

From Human Events, which I think even DannyDoyle would call a far right website:

"Across the globe, many other countries celebrate a form of Labor Day on May 1, known as May Day, or International Workers' Day. A common workers holiday since the 1800s, Americans might likewise have officially observed May Day, but for the May anniversary of the traumatic 1886 Haymarket riots (and deaths). This unpleasant association prompted an already chastened Cleveland to select a date less freighted with memory, preferably at the opposite end of the calendar."
tommy
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We don't need all those laboring types with the low IQs any more do we?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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balducci
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Landmark, that's well and good, but (from what I've read) Labor Day was celebrated in the U.S. in September already in 1882. And became a national holiday in 1884. And this all preceded the 1886 Haymarket riot.

So I think Human Events is misstating things, if it is trying to imply that Labor Day was set in September from the start. Grover Cleveland did not support changing the date from September to May. But neither did several pro-labor groups:

"In the United States and Canada, however, the official holiday for workers is Labor Day in September. This day was promoted by the Central Labor Union and the Knights of Labor, who organized the first parade in New York City. After the Haymarket Square riot in May, 1886, US President Grover Cleveland feared that commemorating Labor Day on May 1 could become an opportunity to commemorate the riots. Thus he moved in 1887 to support the Labor Day that the Knights supported."

("The Knights of Labor (K of L) (officially "Noble and Holy Order of the Knights of Labor") was the largest and one of the most important American labor organizations of the 1880s.")

Again, it had already been celebrated in September in the U.S. since 1882. And pro-labor groups of the day supported the choice of September.

(Quotes above from Wikipedia and sources mentioned there.)
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Is it true that they gave them labor day as an holiday because it was an holiday anyway?
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landmark
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The Knights of Labor and the American Federation of Labor, two supporters of the September date, were very conservative unions, and were afraid of being "tainted" with the Socialist or Communist label, unlike some other unions such as the IWW. What I was pointing out in my original post was the history of American unionism which became less and less radical over time, and thus less and less effective as well. And so now we are at the point where the pig has to apologize to the wolf for not inviting him to dinner, a dinner where the pig himself is the meal.
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Come out to California...everyone fawns over the pigs, especially the politicians errrrrrrr wolves.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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What a tragedy that "everyone" tries to improve wages, conditions, and lives of workers! What are people thinking? How dare politicians try to improve the lot of the majority of their constituents!
Sarcasm off etc. But really . . .
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It's amazing how fast your cynicism about politicians shuts off when it's the right guys buying the votes.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
ed rhodes
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On 2011-08-31 19:10, LobowolfXXX wrote:
It wasn't (isn't) my intention to knock organized labor as an institution. Or to suggest that a lot of important things haven't come out of the labor movement. At just about all these sorts of holiday events, though, groups put aside their political differences and invite their local representatives.


It's one thing to "put aside their political differences" and another totally to invite the people who tried to hamstring you and drive you out of business to march in your parade and bask in the favorable publicity.
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LobowolfXXX
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It's a community event. I've known Veterans groups that were vehemently anti-Democrat (as a whole), and would not have dreamed of not inviting their local political representatives.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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Nobody complained when the KKK parade over in Idaho didn't invite the blacks and jews to march in their parade.
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Magnus Eisengrim
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On 2011-09-01 11:44, critter wrote:
Nobody complained when the KKK parade over in Idaho didn't invite the blacks and jews to march in their parade.


But did they tell them to stay away?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
critter
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I'm pretty sure the seperation clause is in their manifesto, so... Yeah, kinda'. Smile
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mastermindreader
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On 2011-09-01 11:30, LobowolfXXX wrote:
It's a community event. I've known Veterans groups that were vehemently anti-Democrat (as a whole), and would not have dreamed of not inviting their local political representatives.


Yes- it's a community event, but its specific purpose is TO HONOR LABOR! Your comparison is really apples and oranges.

Good thoughts,

Bob
LobowolfXXX
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On 2011-09-01 13:30, mastermindreader wrote:
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On 2011-09-01 11:30, LobowolfXXX wrote:
It's a community event. I've known Veterans groups that were vehemently anti-Democrat (as a whole), and would not have dreamed of not inviting their local political representatives.


Yes- it's a community event, but its specific purpose is TO HONOR LABOR! Your comparison is really apples and oranges.

Good thoughts,

Bob


It's actually not. You can't really judge the soundness of the analogy without knowing the basis for their political position(s).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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What defines a "community event"?

I wouldn't think that privately sponsored parades necessarily automatically qualify as such. Do they?

(E.g., I'm pretty sure I've heard of cities issuing licenses for parades to groups because they legally had to, even though the community did not support it.)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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By community event, I meant held on public property and/or open to the public. I may be assuming too much about the parade. That is, it's not on company grounds, or at a rented site, and if you don't have your union card, you can't come check it out.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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On 2011-09-01 09:27, LobowolfXXX wrote:
It's amazing how fast your cynicism about politicians shuts off when it's the right guys buying the votes.

Politicians are always corrupt--we all know that. But in the old days, Tammany at least used to throw the newly arrived immigrants a few dollars their way if they voted for them. That was the deal. Kind of like the old Mafia. They took care of the people on their street while they plundered.

Nowadays, though, the politicians want to see your checkbook before they send any money your way. And you're supposed to be grateful for that. It's all pay to play, and the more you pay, the more they let you play. So all I'm saying is, let the majority of Americans play rather than the elite few.
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