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Sam Sandler
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Hi there everyone,

although I do not consider my self and escape artist I am a full time illusionist and perform several escapes in my show as well as other escapes for publicity thru out the year.

any who- I caught this thread and was intrigued by it. may I offer a thought

I think you are going about this all the wrong way. I understand the idea of getting national exposure for escape artist but in todays world that's just not news.

what is news

hundreds of escape artist showing up in NY time square all being locked up in PINK straight jackets suporting breast cancer awareness and having sponsers for each of the artist escaping thus raising thousands of dollars for a great cause!

now that is news that has a hook and you will be doing a wonderful thing raising the much needed money for this cause. sure it can be any cuase but I think the idea of hundreds of men wearing PINK straight jackets would make for a great photo op and a great news story.

I love performing my routine but how cool would it be to see hundreds of us doing it at the same time in one location. and that my friend is the key getting us all in one location. this makes it easy for the news to cover it, as well as record holder counting people.

just my thoughts - I have few others but after thinking it thru I felt this was the best idea.

this would I think would accomplish what WEAR is trying to do.

sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
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drwilson
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Sam,

That would certainly be a good publicity stunt. I can't say what it is that WEAR is trying to do, because different people have different ideas about what that is.

WEAR got started in 2005 with a discussion of a daisy-chain handcuff escape and other kinds of stunts that involved collecting in a single location. That proved not to be feasible, because it wasn't possible to get a large number of people to agree to travel to a single location.

Yours,

Paul
Sam Sandler
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Don't take this the wrong way but then that's their problem!

that then is the issue they are not really dedicated to what they claim then, if my understanding is that they want to gain national publicity then you need to be willing to do what is needed to be done to get the publicity. (think I just created a new tounge twister there) LOL

large number of people get together for many other causes and maybe having a cause would convince more people to be involved and willing to drive to or take the train to a specific location.

I guess it all comes down to the willingness of the participants

sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
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drwilson
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Sam,

If individual escape artists are doing well at getting bookings and selling tickets to their shows, why should they invest time and energy to help others?

If an individual escape artist is not yet successful, how can they justify spending time and money to promote the art in general if this is not going to pay off for them?

Yours,

Paul
Sam Sandler
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Not sure I understand your questions

first question - of course they should want to help others!! that's a no brainer and if they don't want to help a great cause well then they suck! if they are too good (or think they are too good) to help others then I don't want their help!

I get my own publicity and book my own shows this is my full time job and yet I always make time each year to volunteer to help certain charities or great causes. its not always whats in it for me! that's the wrong attitude! wheres the servants heart in that attitude.

second question- any and all exposure or networking is a good thing. so they may not be successful yet but this or other events that they participate in would help further their status of moving forward in the biz. when I first started out I did almost any show I could do. many times working with top professionals. wow I learned alot! now I am one of those top professionals! so there is lots of value in spending some of my money and time to help a great cause and hang with some other entertainers and who knows what kind of info they may pick up and learn a few things that will help them. I'm still learning and that is the secret to real success - keep learning from those who have gone on before you!

again not sure of your questions I mean I understand them but not sure why you ask them. is there some kind of lack of comrodery with in the escape artist relm? we should have an attitude how can I help others and not whats in it for me.

sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
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Wolflock
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Quote:
On 2011-10-07 11:51, Sam Sandler wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way but then that's their problem!

that then is the issue they are not really dedicated to what they claim then, if my understanding is that they want to gain national publicity then you need to be willing to do what is needed to be done to get the publicity. (think I just created a new tounge twister there) LOL

large number of people get together for many other causes and maybe having a cause would convince more people to be involved and willing to drive to or take the train to a specific location.

I guess it all comes down to the willingness of the participants

sam


Why Time Square? Why not another Country? It has nothing to do with dedication. It has to do with others maybe not having the funding, Time, etc. Remember this is a WORLD WIDE Event, not Nation wide event.
Wolflock
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The Amazing Michael
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Quote:
On 2011-10-08 19:41, Sam Sandler wrote:

is there some kind of lack of comrodery with in the escape artist relm? we should have an attitude how can I help others and not whats in it for me.

sam


Sam, Escapology is a whole different animal than any other branch of magic. A lot of EA's would like to be the ONLY EA and do not want to share their secrets in technique, performance, business practice, etc with anyone. Jealousy is the name of the game in Escapes.
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Sam Sandler
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Wolflock- it could be any where you missed the point of the post I fear. I don't care where it is I was merely pointing out one idea that's all.
times square came to mind as it is as they say the center of the universe. all the news stations are right there and it makes it easy to get noticed and from what I understand that is the issue here. trying to get publicity. it could be any where or any country but keep in mind if you have it in utah on a farm or in spain in an unknown city you are less likely to get the publicity you are trying to get. any who have it where ever you can get the most people to show and get the best publicity

Michael- yes I have heard something along those lines before. thanks for filling me in with more details. I will be sure to tread lightly.Smile I am illusionist and perform several escapes and well versed in escapes- would not call myself an expert or anything close to that but I understand publicity and being an escape artist myself I offered a thought

take it or leave it I guess. if I can help I am here to do so.

best of luck to all

sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
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Ian McColl
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Escapology doesn’t have that many secrets, the internet has seen to that. Childish minds will say jealousy is the root of all ills between escape artists, it isn’t. Ignorance is the major factor.
When people have studied the art in all areas, performance, mechanics and phycology, it is not jealousy which makes them resist helping people, it’s because they make their living from the study and time they have put in.
Others simply don’t aid in any discussion because in reality they don’t know the answer, the silence is better than exposing themselves by opening their mouth.
For most part, people only learn just enough to get by. Learn a few escapes and do them well. When someone asks them about an escape they don’t know, due to the assumed ‘job description’ ..escape artist can escape most things!!... they will either pretend to know but not say anything, or say the wrong thing to appear to know.
This message board is full of one off, ‘I know! listen to me’ type replies. Some of which probably put more people in danger than save them.
It is fairly common to have a novice say like” I have been booked next week to do a show and I want to do something BIG. Any suggestion? I am thinking of doing a burning rope upside down, never done escapes before can someone help??.....
Out of the woodwork, many will try to assist with many suggestions but those who know will keep quiet and it’s not jealousy it’s just smart.
People who are mature and self confident don’t get or feel the need for jealousy that is for kids in playgrounds.
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2011-10-09 15:39, Ian McColl wrote:
Escapology doesn’t have that many secrets, the internet has seen to that. Childish minds will say jealousy is the root of all ills between escape artists, it isn’t. Ignorance is the major factor.
When people have studied the art in all areas, performance, mechanics and phycology, it is not jealousy which makes them resist helping people, it’s because they make their living from the study and time they have put in.
Others simply don’t aid in any discussion because in reality they don’t know the answer, the silence is better than exposing themselves by opening their mouth.
For most part, people only learn just enough to get by. Learn a few escapes and do them well. When someone asks them about an escape they don’t know, due to the assumed ‘job description’ ..escape artist can escape most things!!... they will either pretend to know but not say anything, or say the wrong thing to appear to know.
This message board is full of one off, ‘I know! listen to me’ type replies. Some of which probably put more people in danger than save them.
It is fairly common to have a novice say like” I have been booked next week to do a show and I want to do something BIG. Any suggestion? I am thinking of doing a burning rope upside down, never done escapes before can someone help??.....
Out of the woodwork, many will try to assist with many suggestions but those who know will keep quiet and it’s not jealousy it’s just smart.
People who are mature and self confident don’t get or feel the need for jealousy that is for kids in playgrounds.

:applause:
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
The Amazing Michael
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Ian, you are somewhat right in what you have said. "It is fairly common to have a novice say like� I have been booked next week to do a show and I want to do something BIG. Any suggestion? I am thinking of doing a burning rope upside down, never done escapes before can someone help??..... " This is a common place here on the boards.

"Escapology doesn�t have that many secrets, the internet has seen to that. " This is also correct. Any layman who has visited Cannon's Great Escapes website (unrestricted public access) could find out secrets by seeing all the gimmicked escape equipment for sale over there......many items made by some guy in Australia. Smile And lets not forget our little friend, Youtube......plenty of exposure there too.

However, jealousy IS a very real thing in this art and if you do not believe that, then you are very naive. I have been on the inside of this art for quite sometime and have had close friendships with several of the big shots in the game. I have spend untold hours on the phone with these guys hearing all their personal stories about their feuds with other contemporaries, their jealous rants about how this guy stole this from their act and did it on TV and that guy took this idea when it was in its infancy after they talked about it at a social event, or this guy made a public challenge to me and declared himself the winner by default, or this guy was challenged to do my escape and refused but told everyone that it never happened, and on and on and on. I will not mention names or specific details because even though I no longer speak to any of these guys, I still respect their privacy.

In my opinion, my mind is not childish for addressing the jealousy issue, I think other people (like Ian) just have a different opinion because they live way out in BFE and do not do escapes on a regular basis (if at all) anymore. Just my two cents.
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Cliffg37
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I have been a classroom teacher for the last 20 years of my life. If you ask a teacher to share a lesson or activity that they have made, the standard answer is "of course" and they are very eager to help you out. At least me, and most teachers I know. Here comes the problem. Working from another teacher's material is all but impossible. They wrote it for themselves, and it suits their style.

I am going to suggest the same is true of escape artists. Micheal, if you taught me an escape that you do and have great success with, I will bet it would flop when I tried it. Even if you taught me your successful patter that went with it, unless I made it my own, it would never work for me. For this reason, and that I am an honest man, you would have nothing to fear from me being in your audience. Worse, some people might try to steal your stuff, and find that without the move you perfected, it does not work. This would be especially true of the magician who is just dieing to add an escape to his act. This could have terminal results depending on what the escape is.

as you said, my two cents.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right!
Ian McColl
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Dear Amusing Mike,
I think you need to rethink your definition of jealousy. As I have been involved in the art and made many things for many performers for near on 30 years. I have also been in discussion with them. I know some people have had their act stolen and concepts used in TV shows without their consent.
This is unethical practice but has nothing to do with jealousy.
jealous = resentment against a rival, a person enjoying success or advantage, etc., or against another's success or advantage itself.
Steve_Mollett
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I think "egocentric rivalry" would be a tad more accurate.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Ian McColl
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Oh typo, sorry Michael.
The Amazing Michael
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"Amusing Mike"???

"Oh typo, sorry Michael."

Ian, you call me childish? You are 10 years older them me and it looks like YOU are the one who needs to grow up.
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Ian McColl
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Never called you childish. (please re-read) I inferred being jealous is childish. Why is it that everytime I post here and try to respond to anything you say, I get a spray of your venom.

Ian
Kondini
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I have done and still do escapes for a job.....thats it. Its a job, not a way of life, no fame and sometimes no money but its a job.

The true secrets to keeping this job are found from doing it, not pretending, not from being jealous, not from theft from others and I could not teach anyone a way of life which entertainment demands this job to be !

An escapologist who mixes his content with magic defeats the name escapologist.

Its not the gimms the gaffs or anything that's on offer in the shops through dealers or anything else which will give you the secrets of escapology,you cant pick up anything other than BS or methods off YouTube,,,the internet is a great source of info and also breeds self promotioned idiots bull**itters and lies, so take it for what it is.

To be an escapologist you require %05 skill %25 balls %25 knowledge %50 drive and luck. Yes I know that's %105 all added up but the extra %5 is what gives you the edge.

If any one wanted to steal my act, my wife, my kids they would be welcome to cos I know it would only be a very short time before they would be paying me to take them all back.

Ken.
thorndyke
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One of the great things about the conventions was that I was able to meet many people and spend time with them and it really helped me to see that I needed to mellow out myself and not take some things too seriously. The conventions also showed people willingly sharing information and I think that like magic not everything you see can work for you, it takes a sound understanding of your own personality and show image to select material.
The Amazing Michael
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Quote:
On 2011-10-10 01:18, Ian McColl wrote:
Never called you childish. (please re-read) I inferred being jealous is childish. Why is it that everytime I post here and try to respond to anything you say, I get a spray of your venom.

Ian


Ian, after I stated, "Escapology is a whole different animal than any other branch of magic. A lot of EA's would like to be the ONLY EA and do not want to share their secrets in technique, performance, business practice, etc with anyone. Jealousy is the name of the game in Escapes." you stated that "Childish minds will say jealousy is the root of all ills between escape artists, it isn�t. Ignorance is the major factor." I guess I took what you were saying wrong???
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