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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » The Cylinder and Coins by John Ramsay (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magicday
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Any review for The Cylinder and Coins by John Ramsay.
I heard this set is made by Morgan. But I don't find any dealer have it.

Thanks for your help.
S2000magician
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A friend of mine brought up this effect when we were chatting last weekend, quite apart from this thread. According to him he's only seen John Carney perform it because it is incredibly difficult. (That wasn't his exact phrasing.) When a student of Marlo's describes something as "incredibly difficult", he knows whereof he speaks. He also said that the effect is quite amazing.
TheAmbitiousCard
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Quote:
On 2003-09-02 16:45, magicday wrote:
Any review for The Cylinder and Coins by John Ramsay.
I heard this set is made by Morgan. But I don't find any dealer have it.

Thanks for your help.



C&C is a trick created by John Ramsay. I believe he started performing it back in the 1940s (not sure though). It is not sold by anyone. You must collect the props yourself and/or have them made; magic wand, leather cylinder, piece of cork, coins, etc.

Most magicians that perform it use "Morgan" silver dollars, although John Ramsay apparently used Half Crowns which are smaller.

It is a great trick but requires a lot of practice, on the order of months and months and months.

And, oh yeah, months!

If you are really interested in it, get John Carney's Carneycopia book and study his version, and get Victor Farelli's manuscript for the John Ramsay original,
or Andrew Galloway's version of the original in "The Ramsay Classics" (expensive book).
Other version exist as well..
David Roth has his own version in his book,
Paul Wilson has a version in 5x5 Scotland,
Bob Kohler has a version but it's not published yet.

Carney apparently is working on a DVD of his version, Kohler on his.

A video performance only version can be purchased on John Carney's "Up Close and Far Away" video, and Andrew Galloway's "John Ramsay Video"

This is a serious piece of work, however, and not something you'll be doing after dinner this evening to impress your friends.

I personally prefer Carney's version to the others. Maybe because I spent months and months and months learning that one and I'm still too exhausted to attempt the others. Smile


Best of luck,
Frank
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mattpuglisi
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I believe Thomas Wayne offers a set for this routine, and Dan Watkins has given it a glowing review. There is information on this set at Watkin's website, CoinVanish.com. Look for it in the "Product Reviews" section. (You will need to answer a question to read the information.)

Smile
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gforster
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I hope I don't sound too stupid asking this, but can someone describe the effect? there are many "classics" out there that I have yet to learn of, as my magic "education" has only been in the last year.
EVENTVS STVLTORVM MAGISTER
TheAmbitiousCard
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EFFECT:
4 silver dollars are displayed as is a empty cylinder and a slice of cork.

the cork is covered with the cylinder.

4 coins are vanished one at a time.

upon inspection, the coins re-appear inside the cylinder, UNDER the cork!

next, the coins are covered with the cylinder.
and the cork is taken in the hands.

the coins reappear in the hands, the cork is found by itself, inside the cylinder!

It's juicy!

Frank

Quote:
On 2003-09-02 17:25, mattpuglisi wrote:
I believe Thomas Wayne offers a set for this routine, and, Dan Watkins has given it a glowing review. There is information on this set at Watkin's website, CoinVanish.com. Look for it in the "Product Reviews" section. (You will need to answer a question to read the information.)

Smile


***DELETED STUFF***

I had the shoe repair guy in town make me a leather cylinder for $10. It works perfect for me.
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Jonathan Townsend
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The trick is John Ramsay's take on the 'cap and pence'.

Ross Bertram has a very similar method published.

What attracts folks to the routine is the hope of garnering some insight into what make John Ramsay so memorable. The routine, and a the rest of his material is not particularly difficult. It did however completly fool the 'in' crowd at the time { 1920s }

For some the routine is a sort of badge to denote moving from routines focussing on just a couple of coins to those involving 'more'. For others, a challenge to make coins vanish in some way that builds suspense. The vanishes are supposed to look better and more convincing as they happen.

'The Ramsay Classics' was 24.99 when published. Perhaps H&R could find you a copy.

These routines give you the opportunity to work from mechanics alone. No hint of how John Ramsay performed is presented. I sought out Vernon and Schawartzman on this.

The big puzzle and challenge of that routine... and John Ramasy's work in general has to do with performing the tricks. Just doing them presents the audience with a puzzle, and nothing more. John Ramsay was liked, and some comments are made here and there about his sense of humor. Such is the challenge of his material.

The props are cheap. That was one of his jokes. Scotsman=cheap.

I won't comment on how his routines are performed. Might have to visit Scotland and look up Mr Galloway.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Pete Biro
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Davenport used to sell a cardboard tube set. Smile
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Jeffrey Cowan
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Within the last 18 months, Bob Kohler had a long post either here or on the Genii forum (can't remember which) about this classic effect. It's a masterpiece, but also (as Frank discussed) a challenge for any magician that will require at least a year of sweat, practice and focus. It's a knuckle-buster, and once you've got it down, THEN you've got to learn to make it entertaining -- at least if you work for lay audiences. Plus, in the old days there was no one person you could go to for the props. . .
Dan Watkins
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Frank,

Thomas only makes the cylinder with cocobolo end caps and the coin stacks.

The prices he gave when I wrote the review were as follows:

Two types of cylinders:
$1 cylinder w/caps - $105.00
$1/2 cylinder w/caps - $90.00

Three types of coin stacks
Four coin $1/2 stack - $72.00
Three coin $1 stack - $90.00
Four coin $1 stack - $100.00

Thomas also provides a $10 credit if you provide your “top” coin to match the coins you use for $1 size stacks.

Thomas also sells very expensive custom wands. The cork slice you can get after drinking a bottle of wine Smile
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Jonathan Townsend
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Producing the bottle from a tiny cylinder is probably a better trick.

offering the audience some of the wine may lead to them liking you more too.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
wsduncan
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For those who are keeping score Vernon's version is detailed in the Art Of Close Up books by Lewis Ganson.

Not too different from Ramsay's if I recall.
da5id
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I just watched Carney's DVD "Carney on Ramsey: lessons in misdirection". It is amazing and humbling. Highly recommended viewing material for all.
TheAmbitiousCard
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oops. I forgot about the Vernon method in Ganson's book. Yes, it is like the Ramsay method except for the props. I think that one uses a rolled up dollar bill and poker chips???

Johnathan, you've got quite a sense of humor about this effect. I think you've got some info about this trick's history up your sleeve that I have yet to learn from you.

By the way, you can often find a copy of The Ramsay Classics on ebay usually for around $100.

Frank
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Dan Watkins
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The great part of this routine is the structure. In method, it is simply, a one at a time vanish and reproduction of a group of coins, however the effect is far from it. The effect is a translocation of coins to an impossible location.

This very structure takes the heat off your hands when you most need it. There has been a lot of talk lately about perfect coin vanishes, etc. in the "Show Me the Money" forum. In my opinion, one of the best coin vanishes is when you make the coin apparently appear somewhere else - it takes all the heat off the vanished coin.

The spectators stop looking for the coins you vanished when they see a little pile of coins on the table.

Also for the reproduction they are focusing on how you are going to get coins out of the cylinder, and aren't looking for them in your hands. Its just a wonderful routine for directing the audience's focus in the wrong places at the right time, and so much more than a simple - "See my 3 coins, now they are gone, now they are back" routine.
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John Kokot
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Watching Tim Conover's exquisite performance of this routine will lead you to believe that he has trap doors in his hands. Those who desire to make this routine appear magical may have to make a deal with the Devil in order to obtain the requisite chops.
TheAmbitiousCard
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I've heard Bob Kohler speak highly of Tim Conover's performance. Where, oh where, can Tim be seen doing this???
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
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Dan Watkins
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Tim is the one that taught Kohler the routine, though Kohler has his own handlings now.

Kohler was trying to put together a C&C DVD that would feature his handlings as well as Connover's, but I don't think it ever came together.

Here is the post that Kohler wrote about it.
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VernonOnCoins
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Da5id,
where did you get the Carney on Ramsay tape? Is that released already
Dan Watkins
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He released some at FISM - he is holding off on the public release until he finishes up some footage on one of his other DVDs so people can take advantage of package deals.
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