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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Would you rather not have been born? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Magnus Eisengrim
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All the stuff in your pockets seems to get transported too. And your clothes. And the stuff touching your clothes. But not the ground that you stand on. Mighty clever.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
The great Gumbini
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Well think about this folks---If I had never been born what would you be reading right now? And who I ask would wish you this---


Good magic to all,


Eric
jugglestruck
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Quote:
On 2011-09-28 20:22, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Life is an unwanted interruption of blissful nonexistence.


I think that pretty much sums up her thoughts on this.
Pakar Ilusi
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Blissful nonexistence?

Smile

How can feel anything if you don't exist?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
jugglestruck
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Well, maybe just miss out the word 'blissful'.
irossall
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Quote:
On 2011-09-27 11:07, Payne wrote:
Non existence is easy to visualize. Just think of what you were like before you were born. We come from a state of non existence and shall return to that state when our brains stop functioning.

We only get one life. So enjoy it while you can. There is time enough for non-existence after you die.


With all due respect Payne, neither of us knows for sure if this is our only shot at life.
My opinion is, ANYTHING that happens once in eternity can be repeated. If we came from "non-existence" why can't this happen again and again?
Iven Smile
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
edh
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Iven, according to some scientists it does, and may already be happening.
Magic is a vanishing art.
edh
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Jon, so tell me what you experienced from the time you went under until the time you woke up?
Magic is a vanishing art.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2011-09-29 21:35, edh wrote:
Jon, so tell me what you experienced from the time you went under until the time you woke up?

what time? I have no memory of any time between nodding off and regaining consciousness much like waking up but with much less energy.
now if someone took movies and I could watch them I might have some experience of that time vicariously, sort of, but again I'm making a distinction between the experience of nothing (consciousness required) and not experiencing anything - ie being only to others and not to myself.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
stoneunhinged
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Actually, this thread should be merged with one of the capital punishment threads.

Hamlet put it best:

"Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?"

That "undiscovered country" might well also precede our unconscious existence. To have never been born might still also mean a later entrance to that undiscovered country.

Our lack of knowledge of what non-existence might mean is so profound that it should force us to deal with the existence we know.

It is precisely in this sense that I so wholeheartedly disagree with Payne's apparent materialism. Since I am convinced (philosophically, and I am not about to even begin explaining my position, but I am convinced of it) that Being is "mind" or consciousness, I do not dare to pretend to know what manifestations consciousness might or might not take outside the world I have come to know with sensation and reflection.

So I try to remain humble. I know, I know, I do it badly sometimes....
jugglestruck
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Quote:
On 2011-09-30 10:13, stoneunhinged wrote:

Our lack of knowledge of what non-existence might mean is so profound that it should force us to deal with the existence we know.



It was because of this that I put a different version to my girlfriend. Trying to come to terms with the original question in the thread I feel can be a none starter but the choice of coming back again or not is something more comprehendible to most.
stoneunhinged
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I understand.

Just to be clear, I only disagree with Payne's apparent materialism and his certainty. My "belief" (if you can all it that) is pretty much the same as his.

I think that when we die, our "consciousness" just goes away.

But I am not certain. I am certain about nothing, pretty much. I know I like the taste of beer.
landmark
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Quote:
On 2011-09-29 00:16, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
All the stuff in your pockets seems to get transported too. And your clothes. And the stuff touching your clothes. But not the ground that you stand on. Mighty clever.

Edge detection?
rockwall
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Quote:
On 2011-09-30 10:41, stoneunhinged wrote:
I understand.

Just to be clear, I only disagree with Payne's apparent materialism and his certainty. My "belief" (if you can all it that) is pretty much the same as his.

I think that when we die, our "consciousness" just goes away.

But I am not certain. I am certain about nothing, pretty much. I know I like the taste of beer.


But are you 'certain' you like the taste of beer? That is the question!
Woland
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It has been written:

Quote:
So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter.

Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead, more than the living which are yet alive.

Yea, better is he than both they, which hath not yet been, who hath not seen the evil work that is done under the sun.
critter
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I just can't bring myself to that level of cynicism.
Sure, there's a lot of deebags in the world and that gets on my nerves sometimes, but there's also lots of good folks. And there are parks and Scottish Terriers to boot. Oh yeah, and my hot blonde girlfriend.
I have my dark moods periodically, but overall I think life kicks ass!
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Jonathan Townsend
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The original question remains unanswerable as far as I can tell - has there been any rephrasing?

To suggest a preference for a life spent unconscious and unresponsive to the world - just seems creepy but perhaps that's the intention of the question?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
jugglestruck
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As much as the original question is hard to contemplate it is by no means unanswerable, my friend is very sure of that.
I did simplify the concept though by asking my girlfriend if given the choice, would she come back or not - albeit with no memory of this life.

Very good quote Woland, the apparent difference between the author and my friend is that they have both reached the same conclusion but by very different routes.

Critter, I think you have discovered the meaning of life ...... a walk in the park with a Scottish terrier and a hot blond.
Woland
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The rest of the book from which that quote came is quite worth studying for an in-depth presentation of that particular point of view, as well as many if not all other possible points of view. I am not so sure that your friend and the author of that quote are really in the same philosophical place at all.
LobowolfXXX
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We make choices all the time without any direct experience about them. Would I rather go to Ireland or Alaska? Should I try meal A or meal B?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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