The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Awlaki 'killed” again (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
critter
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2551 Posts

Profile of critter
1984 is the new Hitler. It's been coming up a lot lately.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Kevin Connolly
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
1329 Posts

Profile of Kevin Connolly
Quote:
On 2011-09-30 15:30, Chance wrote:
You're right. Liberals are just so darn quiet in the face of all Obama has done "wrong":

http://www.squidoo.com/liberalsagainstobama


I'm glad you agree I'm right. Squidoo is the best the liberals can do? What about REAL news outlets? Very quiet. Too quiet. If was the last POTUS, he'd be lynched by now in the media.
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com

Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email]
Kevin Connolly
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
1329 Posts

Profile of Kevin Connolly
Woland...I would have to say this a Holy War, using terror. You're right though, the line gets blurred. But hey, that's war.
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com

Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email]
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5022 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2011-09-30 15:13, Kevin Connolly wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-09-30 14:56, landmark wrote:
Quote:


What makes you say he was a murderer?


You may want to do a Google search. Add Dead Al's name with Underwear bomber, Fort Hood, Times square to your search.

Glad to be of help.

Ah, I see now. The Founding Fathers intended trial by Google. Thanks.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5022 Posts

Profile of landmark
Woland wrote:
Quote:
As Kevin Williamson notes:

Quote:

If Awlaki had been killed in combat, that would be a different thing. But he was not. If anybody can be designated an enemy combatant in a war in which the battleground is everywhere and the president has legally unlimited power to do as he will, and when citizens can be put to death summarily, with no checks and balances and no meaningful separation of powers, we have surrendered something important.

Exactly the point. Thanks Woland for being intellectually honest and making this point clear.
How can a self-respecting Tea Partier possibly support giving that kind of power to a single person?
Kevin Connolly
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
1329 Posts

Profile of Kevin Connolly
Quote:
On 2011-09-30 15:56, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-09-30 15:13, Kevin Connolly wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-09-30 14:56, landmark wrote:
Quote:


What makes you say he was a murderer?


You may want to do a Google search. Add Dead Al's name with Underwear bomber, Fort Hood, Times square to your search.

Glad to be of help.

Ah, I see now. The Founding Fathers intended trial by Google. Thanks.



Please address all your problems and concerns to the White House. I'm sure they can explain it better than I. Glad to be of help in your quest for knowledge.
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com

Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email]
bblumen
View Profile
Special user
Baltimore
987 Posts

Profile of bblumen
No response to my post? Hmmm...


Brian
"Lulling the minds of your company is more important than dazzling their eyes." Ed Marlo
gdw
View Profile
Inner circle
4817 Posts

Profile of gdw
Quote:
On 2011-09-30 15:36, critter wrote:
1984 is the new Hitler. It's been coming up a lot lately.


Or maybe it's just the new reality?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
critter
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2551 Posts

Profile of critter
Ah, the guests have all arrived. Now it's a party!
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
gdw
View Profile
Inner circle
4817 Posts

Profile of gdw
Quote:
On 2011-09-30 16:30, bblumen wrote:
No response to my post? Hmmm...


Brian


This one?

Quote:
On 2011-09-30 14:21, bblumen wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-09-30 13:22, Chance wrote:
Capital Punishment here at home. Summary executions of US citizens abroad. Why is the cheering and bloodlust not at all surprising?

I guess you guys won't see it until it's too late, but never say you weren't warned. Because if they can execute even 1 American without due process and get away with it, and if you cheer it on, then you have no leg to stand on when they come for you or someone you know. Either the Bill of Rights covers everyone, or it covers no one. There is no such thing as selective enforcement of the our Rights.



What part of this do you not understand?

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


"except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger" I'm pretty sure he was not in service in the american land or naval forces, or in the Militia.

If this is not how it was meant, then that would mean, particularly in conjunction with Obama's self given "power" to order americans assassinated, than NO ONE is entitled to the presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury when answering for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, so long as they say it is a time of War or public danger.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Woland
View Profile
Special user
680 Posts

Profile of Woland
Quote:
Thanks Woland for being intellectually honest and making this point clear.
How can a self-respecting Tea Partier possibly support giving that kind of power to a single person?


Thanks, landmark. I think that the answer to your question hinges on whether we are at war, and whether Awlaki was an enemy combatant.

I think it is nearly self evident that the President, as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, has the right and the power to order the deaths of enemy combatants on the field of battle. And it is clearly lawful by any version of international law before or since the Treaty of Westphalia, to kill enemy combatants on the field of battle, for no reason other than their being enemy combatants.

It is clearly lawful to kill enemy combatants sleeping in their beds in their barracks far from the front lines, as well.

So the question you have to ask yourself is, are we at war? Are we at war with Al Qaeda? Is Awlaki an enemy combatant? If the answers to those questions are "yes," then the answer to your question is, there is no problem with the President ordering the Armed Forces to kill him.

The apparent sticking point is that he is an American citizen. But the example of the War Between the States/Civil War shows that it is clearly lawful for the Armed Forces of the United States to kill enemy combatants who happen to be American citizens if they are engaged in an insurrection. So that's not really a problem if the answers to those 3 questions, above, are yes yes and yes.

So what it boils down to is, are we at war? Are we at war with Al Qaeda? Those of us who think that we are not engaged in war, find the President's order illegal. Those who think that we are at war, find the President's order unexceptional.

As far as I can tell, there is no question but that Al Qaeda thinks it is at war with the United States. There is no question, but that Awlaki thought he was at war with the United States. And I think they are right.

And I think that they are winning. Sure, they are losing leaders and fighters. But they are effectively using the weapons of terrorism to impose their law on Western Europe and the United States.
Kevin Connolly
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
1329 Posts

Profile of Kevin Connolly
Why the total absence of the Davis death penalty opposition crowd up in arms today? I also haven't heard a peep out of the Southern Poverty Research Center either. Hmmmm
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com

Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email]
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2011-09-30 15:30, Chance wrote:
You're right. Liberals are just so darn quiet in the face of all Obama has done "wrong":

http://www.squidoo.com/liberalsagainstobama


Obviously a bunch of racists.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16248 Posts

Profile of tommy
Considering Al-Awlaki was a confirmed double agent, having dined at the Pentagon shortly after 9/11 and taking account of the fact that he set set up all those CIA fake terror sting operations, the least we can do, now he has been silenced, is throw him into ocean and drink to the death of a clown.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Kevin Connolly
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
1329 Posts

Profile of Kevin Connolly
Remember, water boarding a terrorist is a no-no, dropping a missile on Americans is now OK.

Goodbye Al and Sam. Smile
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com

Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email]
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5022 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2011-09-30 17:00, Kevin Connolly wrote:
Why the total absence of the Davis death penalty opposition crowd up in arms today? I also haven't heard a peep out of the Southern Poverty Research Center either. Hmmmm

Is there supposed to be some coherent train of thought here?
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5022 Posts

Profile of landmark
Woland,
Thanks for your considered reply.
I would argue that an American citizen is not an enemy combatant merely because the President says so. That way lies chaos. There must be checks and balances. The Obama DOJ in response to Awlaki's suit (see the Greenwald article I referenced above) refused to provide evidence that Awlaki was an immediate danger, and in fact argued that they did not need to provide evidence of such. The only "evidence" available against Awlaki is extremely inflammatory speech which is not a crime punishable by assassination.
Woland
View Profile
Special user
680 Posts

Profile of Woland
Thank you for your thoughtful response, landmark. I might reply that waging warfare is not limited to the actual use of weapons on a battlefield, and that commanders and others who wield nothing more lethal than a telephone, a pen, or a video camera certainly can be considered "combatants." Moreover, although I agree that it should not be up to the President to designate anyone he wishes as an "enemy combatant," I don't think that it should be up to the courts, either. Al Qaeda has declared war on the United States, in so many words. So did Awlaki. I might say that the legal arguments that he was not an enemy combatant are pettifogging sophistries.
ClintonMagus
View Profile
Inner circle
Southwestern Southeast
3999 Posts

Profile of ClintonMagus
I'm sure it's Bush's fault, too...
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16248 Posts

Profile of tommy
Now who's being naive, kay?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Awlaki 'killed” again (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.19 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL