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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Awlaki 'killed” again (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Kevin Connolly
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On 2011-09-30 17:57, landmark wrote:
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On 2011-09-30 17:00, Kevin Connolly wrote:
Why the total absence of the Davis death penalty opposition crowd up in arms today? I also haven't heard a peep out of the Southern Poverty Research Center either. Hmmmm

Is there supposed to be some coherent train of thought here?


Yes, ask someone around you to explain it to you. I'm busy myself helping others or I would take on your quest.
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com

Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email]
landmark
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Glad to. NVMS-ers, I'd be glad to hear the explanation of KC's "logic."
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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RS1963
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On 2011-09-30 14:28, Chance wrote:
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On 2011-09-30 13:51, RS1963 wrote:
Aww man another radical nut job that is gone. What is the world going to do now? Too bad that there are those out there that gives other nationalities, Religions etc... such a black eye. I say good riddance. The only problem is. There maybe and often is someone worse right behind him waiting to take over this dead guys place.


OK, let's follow this line...

RS, after reading your posts around the Web I now think that you are a "radical nut job". It's all your fault. It's the "obvious" interpretation your posts give off. I think you are a danger that must be dealt with. Maybe by summary execution. Maybe by secret rendition. Doesn't matter, because as far as you are concerned life as you know it will cease to exist and there will be no recourse or appeals. Maybe if you are lucky you will be released after 5 or 6 years after it's clear that 2000 days of solitary confinement have broken your mind and spirit beyond repair.

What are you going to do about it... then?


They would have to frame me for something I'm not saying that isn't possible but I don't see that happening either. But that would be the only way that I would ever find myself in that situation. I don't have any weapons. Sure I have things around my apartment that could be used as a weapon. Who doesn't? But I don't think of them as such. I don't have any guns. I don't know how to make a bomb. Even if I did I would be too afraid of blowing myself up. So your post isn't even a hypothetical one.

But Chance you can think any thing you like I think neither one of us holds the other's views against each other.

Besides all that I think we know neither of us are "nut jobs" in the classic sense of those two words used side by side. We have our moments yes but on the whole probably much more mentally together than some out there.
tommy
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You mean they would have no "evidence" against you in your opinion. If they are not going to take you before a court then what makes you think they need any evidence? The fact is they can merely arrest you, lock you up or kill you if the so desire. Your name can magically appear on a list and when you ask them how they can say we don't know or care. Now get on board that for questioning and confess! That is if your one of lucky ones who are not dead. But they would never do that to innocent people would they? And you innocent until proven guilty or they put your name on the list. One good thing about it is that making lists and killing people is cheap. It does not matter if it makes sense or not or if you are for it or not because that's the way it is, is it not? What is good about the USA is that they are open about whereas we and Russians and every other government does it but denies it except Israel that I can think of. What if a president of another country put you on his list, killed you and said on TV, we got him! What is good for the goose is good for the gander is it not? How can the USA now tell these nuts not to put Americans on their list and say to them because its wrong? If all men are equal then does thid mean we can all now make our own list like Obama? If not then tell me what is so speacial about him?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
RS1963
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Tommy didn't I say I would have to be framed since I'm not going to do anything to be arrested for on my own ever? I never even shoplifted when I was a kid. So when I say I will never actually break any laws that would get me arrested I mean that. I've never even done any illegal drugs. Nor have I driven while or right after I've been drinking. So that being said yes they would have to get me on completely made up charges. Very true they way our system here in the U.S. is getting closer to socialism/communism day by day it could happen at some point. But that's the only way I'm going to be put into jail or prison. It won't be because of any actual wrong doing on my part.
R.S.
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So much for Obama being soft on terrorism.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
LobowolfXXX
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On 2011-10-01 06:03, tommy wrote:
If all men are equal then does thid mean we can all now make our own list like Obama? If not then tell me what is so speacial about him?


One thing that makes Obama special is that whole "Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces" thing. It's true that the 'All-American Boy' (per his father) could have had some constitutional protections, but he loved him some Yemen even more than America. Our police officers couldn't arrest him in Yemen; he was subject to their court system, not ours. And their court system said he was wanted dead or alive. Tragic, but that can happen when you commit crimes (like, e.g. Passport forgery) and leave the country to avoid American jurisdiction - you might get someone else's that you don't like nearly so much. In retrospect, maybe he should have gotten himself a lawyer and availed himself of his American constitutional rights.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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His father, in fact, filed suit with the DOJ to stop his targeting by the US. The case was ignored; DOJ claimed they didn't need to indict him in order to murder him. So your argument about him availing himself of constitutional protections falls flat.

So let's say Timothy McVeigh, known extreme right-wing separatist and enemy of the State, blows up a Federal Building. And let's say there's a supporter of Tim's, an American citizen, currently living in Yemen, who may or may not have provided material support to Tim, who makes speeches supporting Tim's actions. Under the reasoning above do you think the US has a right to assassinate this supporter with no trial in absentia, and no presentation of evidence?

I sure don't.

Or does the King get to execute those he wishes with no trial? WACO anyone? MOVE?
mastermindreader
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On 2011-10-01 12:08, landmark wrote:
His father, in fact, filed suit with the DOJ to stop his targeting by the US. The case was ignored; DOJ claimed they didn't need to indict him in order to murder him. So your argument about him availing himself of constitutional protections falls flat.



Actually, the case wasn't ignored. The court ruled that the father did not have standing to bring an action on behalf of his son because his son was an adult.
LobowolfXXX
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On 2011-10-01 12:08, landmark wrote:
His father, in fact, filed suit with the DOJ to stop his targeting by the US. The case was ignored; DOJ claimed they didn't need to indict him in order to murder him. So your argument about him availing himself of constitutional protections falls flat.

So let's say Timothy McVeigh, known extreme right-wing separatist and enemy of the State, blows up a Federal Building. And let's say there's a supporter of Tim's, an American citizen, currently living in Yemen, who may or may not have provided material support to Tim, who makes speeches supporting Tim's actions. Under the reasoning above do you think the US has a right to assassinate this supporter with no trial in absentia, and no presentation of evidence?

I sure don't.

Or does the King get to execute those he wishes with no trial? WACO anyone? MOVE?


The terrorism/material support/enemy combatant/non-combatant stuff makes for a very interesting and tricky element of constitutional law. Would a trial in absentia really satisfy you, or would you object on constitutional grounds that he wasn't there with representation, didn't call witnesses on his behalf, etc?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
magicfish
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On 2011-09-30 13:22, Chance wrote:
Capital Punishment here at home. Summary executions of US citizens abroad. Why is the cheering and bloodlust not at all surprising?

I guess you guys won't see it until it's too late, but never say you weren't warned. Because if they can execute even 1 American without due process and get away with it, and if you cheer it on, then you have no leg to stand on when they come for you or someone you know. Either the Bill of Rights covers everyone, or it covers no one. There is no such thing as selective enforcement of the our Rights.


wrong. siding with the enemy in the midst of war makes you the enemy. and as such must be pursued, engaged, and killed or captured. No trial is required.
RS1963
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Very true fish.
gdw
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On 2011-10-01 09:46, RS1963 wrote:
Tommy didn't I say I would have to be framed since I'm not going to do anything to be arrested for on my own ever? I never even shoplifted when I was a kid. So when I say I will never actually break any laws that would get me arrested I mean that. I've never even done any illegal drugs. Nor have I driven while or right after I've been drinking. So that being said yes they would have to get me on completely made up charges. Very true they way our system here in the U.S. is getting closer to socialism/communism day by day it could happen at some point. But that's the only way I'm going to be put into jail or prison. It won't be because of any actual wrong doing on my part.


You must not know much about laws and felonies.

I am willing to bet you've done hundreds of things, or less things, but hundreds of times, that could have gotten you arrested.
Many commit felonies DAILY without having a clue. There are also thousands who get arrested without doing a dang thing wrong.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
LobowolfXXX
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On 2011-10-01 14:02, gdw wrote:
You must not know much about laws and felonies.

I am willing to bet you've done hundreds of things, or less things, but hundreds of times, that could have gotten you arrested.
Many commit felonies DAILY without having a clue.


Not so many (people or felonies) as you think, I suspect, given the mens rea requirements that most criminal laws carry.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
RS1963
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Lets see do I do some of these things that are or aren't enforced in some areas even though they are on the books as being illegal? Spitting on the sidewalk, disturbing the peace, jaywalk, litter, kick dogs, cats, write on walls, Answer No to all of those. I'm sure there are other things that many do that could get you arrested in certain places but I'm certain I don't do those either. Like it or not there are many that don't do any of that stuff and we aren't going too. I've never even sneaked into a movie. I have just always known better than to do any of those things. I'm pushing 50 I doubt I'm ever going to do anything that is actually going to get me arrested.
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
RS1963
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If that is even true, I highly doubt it. I've seen a lot of the young turks reports that are made up B.S. Yes I haven't watched any of the clip past the Y.T. intro I don't need to
tommy
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LOL
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
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On 2011-10-01 12:42, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-10-01 12:08, landmark wrote:
His father, in fact, filed suit with the DOJ to stop his targeting by the US. The case was ignored; DOJ claimed they didn't need to indict him in order to murder him. So your argument about him availing himself of constitutional protections falls flat.



Actually, the case wasn't ignored. The court ruled that the father did not have standing to bring an action on behalf of his son because his son was an adult.

Thanks for the correction Bob. It would obviously be ludicrous for Awlaki himself to show up when in fact, the US had already stated their intention of murdering him.
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