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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Awlaki 'killed” again (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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landmark
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On 2011-10-01 13:07, LobowolfXXX wrote:
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On 2011-10-01 12:08, landmark wrote:
His father, in fact, filed suit with the DOJ to stop his targeting by the US. The case was ignored; DOJ claimed they didn't need to indict him in order to murder him. So your argument about him availing himself of constitutional protections falls flat.

So let's say Timothy McVeigh, known extreme right-wing separatist and enemy of the State, blows up a Federal Building. And let's say there's a supporter of Tim's, an American citizen, currently living in Yemen, who may or may not have provided material support to Tim, who makes speeches supporting Tim's actions. Under the reasoning above do you think the US has a right to assassinate this supporter with no trial in absentia, and no presentation of evidence?

I sure don't.

Or does the King get to execute those he wishes with no trial? WACO anyone? MOVE?


The terrorism/material support/enemy combatant/non-combatant stuff makes for a very interesting and tricky element of constitutional law. Would a trial in absentia really satisfy you, or would you object on constitutional grounds that he wasn't there with representation, didn't call witnesses on his behalf, etc?

How do you feel about the scenario I outlined above?
LobowolfXXX
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I'll answer it if and only if it's not a red herring. Would a trial in absentia satisfy you?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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In retrospect, maybe Awlaki would have done better to return to D.C., lawyer-up with high-profile, pro-bono representatives from some of the leading white-shoe law firms in town, and counter-sue the administration. Of course, those fancy lawyers might not be as enthusiastic about defending him against the present administration, as they were about defending terrorists in Guantanamo against the previous administration . . .
RS1963
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I think it would be easier and in the long run less costly to just fry the b**tards when it's found they are part of A.Q or those of a like mind. No trial if they are known to associate with scumbags of that order it's more than likely they are of a like mind.
landmark
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On 2011-10-01 15:09, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I'll answer it if and only if it's not a red herring. Would a trial in absentia satisfy you?
red herring? It is the fundamental question of justice. I 'm frankly surprised at you. Trial in absentia is a start I would say.
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On 2011-10-01 18:05, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-10-01 15:09, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I'll answer it if and only if it's not a red herring. Would a trial in absentia satisfy you?
red herring? It is the fundamental question of justice. I 'm frankly surprised at you. Trial in absentia is a start I would say.


If a trial in absentia wouldn't satisfy you anyway, then the question is a red herring.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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On 2011-10-01 14:12, LobowolfXXX wrote:
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On 2011-10-01 14:02, gdw wrote:
You must not know much about laws and felonies.

I am willing to bet you've done hundreds of things, or less things, but hundreds of times, that could have gotten you arrested.
Many commit felonies DAILY without having a clue.


Not so many (people or felonies) as you think, I suspect, given the mens rea requirements that most criminal laws carry.



http://books.google.ca/books?id=C-VQyu3B......&f=false

Though I certainly imagine it to be a bit of an over exaggeration, however, even if it were as few as three a year, it's still beyond ridiculous the absurd amount of things made illegal.

I am willing to go out on a limb and say that I am 100% certain that every single person here has done at least one thing, most likely far more, that could get them arrested and yes, that includes you RS1963.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
landmark
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On 2011-10-01 21:04, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-10-01 18:05, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-10-01 15:09, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I'll answer it if and only if it's not a red herring. Would a trial in absentia satisfy you?
red herring? It is the fundamental question of justice. I 'm frankly surprised at you. Trial in absentia is a start I would say.


If a trial in absentia wouldn't satisfy you anyway, then the question is a red herring.

A trial in absentia would be necessary; whether it is sufficient, I'm not sure. But that does not make it a red herring. It means that the standard of justice of a country that purports to the ideals of the US at the very least requires a trial, and anything less than that is tyranny on the face of it. Even Eichmann got a trial. The standard for a US citizen who has not even been indicted for a crime should be no less. The standard of proof for treason in the US is well defined.
RS1963
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I haven't looked at it yet But I can honestly say I doubt very highly that I have. I will read it later when I have time and if I have done anything that is mentioned I will admit to it. I may have but again I really doubt it. I'm sure there are a lot of people that haven't. So you're probably losing this one too Glenn.
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All I have to say is being a United States citizene does NOT make you an American. The United States has a duty to protect itself from ALL enemies foreign and domestic. The United States did just that.


Good magic to all,


Eric
landmark
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So Randy, you can look me in the eye with a straight face and say you've never even thought of performing Sam the Bellhop? A clear case of assault with intent to bore.
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On 2011-10-02 01:10, landmark wrote:
So Randy, you can look me in the eye with a straight face and say you've never even thought of performing Sam the Bellhop? A clear case of assault with intent to bore.


That's harsh. It's not like StB is 6-Card Repeat.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
RS1963
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Landmark I can honestly say Sam the Bellhop would not fit me so sorry I haven't wanted to perform that one. Now other things that could be boring. I am sure I have wanted to or have even done so but Sam The Bellhop


let me retract that a little bit. As far as I can remember back I have not wanted to do S.T.B Why I say this is watch some one dig up an old post from here or Lance Pierce's site that says other wise lol That's doubtful too but you know at this point in my life not much surprises me lol. Oh and Six card repeate? Blarrrrrrggggggggggg now look at that mess you caused me to make lol sorry
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
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Q and A with ABC reporter and White House spokesperson:
Quote:

TAPPER: You said that al-Awlaki was “demonstrably and provably involved” in operations. Do you plan on demonstrating or proving –

CARNEY: I — Jake, you know, I should step back. I — he is clearly — I mean, “provably” may be a legal term. I think it has been well established, and it has certainly been the position of this administration and the previous administration, that he is a leader in — was a leader in AQAP; that AQAP was a definite threat, was operational, planned and carried out terrorist attacks that, fortunately, did not succeed but were extremely serious, including the ones specifically that I mentioned in terms of the would-be Christmas Day bombing in 2009 and the attempt to bomb numerous cargo planes headed for the United States; and that he was obviously also an active recruiter of al-Qaida terrorists. So I don’t think anybody in the field would dispute any of those assertions.

TAPPER: You don’t think anybody else in the government would dispute them.

CARNEY: I think any — well, I wouldn’t know of any credible terrorist expert who dispute the fact that he was a leader in al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula and that he was operationally involved in terrorist attacks against American interests and citizens.

TAPPER: Do you plan on bringing before the public any proof of these charges?

CARNEY: Again, this is — the question is — makes us – you know, has embedded within it assumptions about the circumstances of his death that I’m just not going to address.

TAPPER: How on earth is it — what is — I really don’t understand. How — he’s dead.

CARNEY: You –

TAPPER: You are asserting that he had operational control of the cargo plot and the Abdulmutallab plot. He’s now dead.

CARNEY: Mm-hmm.

TAPPER: Can you tell us or the American people — or has a judge been shown — ?

CARNEY: Well, again, Jake, I’m just –

TAPPER: How did –

CARNEY: I’m not going to go any further than what I’ve said about the circumstances of his death and the case against them, which, again, you’re linking. And I think that –

TAPPER: No, you said that he’s responsible for these things. I’m –

CARNEY: Jake — yes. But again –

TAPPER: Is there going to be any evidence presented?

CARNEY: You know, I don’t have anything for you on that.

TAPPER: Do you not see at all — does the administration not see at all how a president asserting that he has the right to kill an American citizen without due process and that he’s not going to even explain why he thinks he has that right is troublesome to some people?

CARNEY: I wasn’t aware of any of those things that you said actually happening.
LobowolfXXX
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Wow...I know some first-year Toastmasters who could replace this guy as a "White House Spokesperson" and be a step up.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Woland
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He isn't much brighter than his boss, is he?
tommy
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He was when that missile from his boss hit him.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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They killed his son now too.
I still find it fascinating that they just bombed the building he went into, to hell with everyone else in it.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
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