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Skitch Veteran user Philadelphia 400 Posts |
Okay, I posted before on an effect I am working on. I need help with some math stuff. Like you know how Max Maven does math stuff where it will always be the letter "C" well I want to do something where it is always a high number at the end. Here is why and here is my effect.
Effect:Okay, I give them a dictionary. Its a book test I made up. Okay so they do some math stuff and come out with a high number. Then they turn to that page. Then I bring out a deck of cards and force the 9 on them. Then they count down to the 9th word and I tell them what the word is. But I don't know any math Magic to = a high number.
§kitch
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Ray Haddad Regular user Mansfield Center, Connecticut 151 Posts |
Skitch,
You can use Anneman's book, 202 Methods of Forcing. There are a variety of number forces there. Ray |
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London Special user U.S.A. 769 Posts |
I agree Annemanns 202 methods of forcing would be your best bet.
THOUGHTfully,
LONDON |
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Jonathan Inner circle Oklahoma 1223 Posts |
I still think it would be more convincing to simply do a riffle force on them and just pick a page where the 7th, 8th, and 10th words were all under 5 letters and just ask them to pick a word about 9 words down but make sure it has at least 5 letters just to make it more challenging. Or something like that.
Maybe it's just me but math stuff seems awkward and I just don't know how you could rationally explain it to the spectator. Math effects confuse ME in the actual effect. Just a thought. Jonathan Grant |
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Andy Leviss Inner circle NYC 1179 Posts |
Amen, Jonathan. Once you start using cards and math to force a page in a book test, it's no longer a book test, it's a cute math/card trick. If you could really read minds (forgetting the fact that you wouldn't need the book at all, we'll give that concession for now), why would you need this whole process for them to pick a page/word/paragraph/whatever?
The ideal would be for them to open the book, turn to a page, and remember a word/sentence/paragraph. If you can't do that, you want to come as close to that ideal as possible. Doing it with math/cards goes far from this ideal, especially when there are countless options, both gimmicked and ungimmicked to come much closer to it. --Andy
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
You can usually give justification for anything, certainly I've seen Lewis Jones give it for the use of playing cards, and I give it for the use of number cards, but adding and subtracting 3 digit numbers or whatever to arrive at a page for a book test is going so far around the houses it screams trick.
I would say any tricks with lists of numbers to be added by a spectator should be avoided at all costs (with the exception of Dunningers 16 digit effect, presented like Dunninger). This is not to say you cannot openly use numbers for effects. Everyone has heard of numerology.Just keep away from mathematics (at least openly). Even Becker's first effect in Stunners is dire. People don't like being asked to do math in front of others. They will feel embarrased if they get it wrong and even simple things can be added wrong when all the attention is on you. Paul. |
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Cornelius Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
I suggest that old way of forcing where you ask them to think of a number from 1 to 50 and the number must be odd and different. You know? A number force. There's no real math involved and it looks like you are reading a mind. Just my view.
From, Cornelius. P.S. or use the one with the 68 force. |
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A l a i n B e ll o n Veteran user 302 Posts |
As Johnathan and Andy said, avoid the math and cards, or the effect will be perceived as a magic trick. Now if you are doing tricks and not mentalism then that might be ok with you. But this being a mentalism forum I would assume that you are trying to generate believability.
While it is possible to justify the use of math and cards, they will most likely weaken the effect. To put it in Derren Brown's terms, you are making the compromise—what makes the trick work—hightly visible. And that is not a good thing -Alain Bellon |
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Fon Regular user London, UK 200 Posts |
If you really still want to do this, then just follow this principle.
Think of a number Add ten Take away the number you first thought of, You have ten. Fon
Always thinking..........?
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Sniper New user 75 Posts |
I do a few math "things" - both impromptu and in my stage show and you have to be VERY careful selecting people for the adding, multiplying, whatever. Fact is, most people have a hard time adding numbers together without the aid of a calculator. Even then, for some it is a stretch. "Add" the pressure of them doing it onstage, with the entire audience staring at them, and you have a true recipie for disaster.
It is sad but true - people today are not only illiterate but hopeless at the most basic math problems. Which is probably why lightning calculation effects don't have a very strong effect. Unless you are performing for people with strong math backgrounds. In which case you can utterly floor them. For example: I did a magic square demo, late one night, for a computer programmer. Very "smart" dude, math savy. It was a basic 5x5 square and I did it very quickly. His reaction was first one of shock. Then he pretended to completely ignore it and changed the topic to something he was an "expert" in. After 5 minutes he again began studying the square and announced it was "impossible" to calculate something so complex so quickly. In the end he was very annoyed to be faced with such an apparent paradox - to him anyways. This is an extreme case. The fellow was extremely insecure and reacted accordingly. Most bright people are fascinated with lightning calculation feats, most dullards are not. IE: doing such demo's in a nightclub - or for any drinking audience - is suicidal... But in general, lightning calculation feats are very cool, and like mnemonics, a very good exercise for the mentalist. Using numbers for arriving at force pages however, is stupid. People who are clueless with math will ASSUME that something "weird" is going on with the numbers, and those who are bright will KNOW that is the case... SN!PER |
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
re;
"People who are clueless with math will ASSUME that something "weird" is going on with the numbers, and those who are bright will KNOW that is the case..." That's probably the perfect way of summing it up Sniper. regarding Fon's post; Quote:
On 2002-06-02 04:20, Fon wrote: Actually, the very BEST type of thing like that, that catches people that think they know is Stewart Judah's Number Affinity in Still More Miracles in Mentalism P.63. I sometimes used to use that impromptu then suddenly say, you remember that thing people used to do as kids where someone was asked to think of a number and calculations like this took place and eventually you subtracted the number you first thought of? I just wanted to point out that didn't happen and no-one could know the total in your mind. But wouldn't it be amazing if you and I together had predicted that number between us? You have written a secret number down initially and so does he on the two halves of a torn business card. Placed together at the conclusion they form the number in his mind. Paul. |
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Cornelius Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
You know, I was brainstorming possible ways for a book test the other day and I was thinking of the person opening to any page, selecting a word and writing the word on a paper. Then you burn the paper and reveal the word! Just a suggestion.
From, Cornelius. |
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Ray Haddad Regular user Mansfield Center, Connecticut 151 Posts |
I forgot to mention earlier that any book by Martin Gardner with MATH in the title will have some material you can use for forcing numbers.
Best Always, Ray |
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Andy Leviss Inner circle NYC 1179 Posts |
Why write it down, though? There are COUNTLESS methods for doing it without a single thing being written down. Especially if you're only going to turn around and burn it. The Center Tear (or a billet switch) has it's place; I don't feel that a book test is that place.
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
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Cornelius Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
True. A book test has always intrigued me to be more simpler with the handling. I'm not sure how you can just have someone open the book to a page and concentrate on a word on that page and have you reveal it without using any props.
From, Cornelius |
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Andy Leviss Inner circle NYC 1179 Posts |
You will in time, Cornelius. Check out some of the books I mentioned to you via e-mail as you have the oppurtunity, and do some looking elsewhere. There are all sorts of methods, from forcing a word to all different types of gaffed books, ranging from simple ones you can make at home to complex specially printed ones.
--Andy
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-06-02 17:17, Andy Leviss wrote: It is Andy, if you're using an imaginary book! I used to follow up a book test by using an imaginary book. Using an imaginary book is not an original idea, but perhaps routining it after a standard book test is. Paul Hallas. |
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Cornelius Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
Thanks Andy. I will be sure to check the books out. What is this all about an imaginary book? LOL
Best, Cornelius. |
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brownbomber Regular user Edinburgh 156 Posts |
I use number and math forces often through the devious means of astrological or numerological motives. Eg. once the person´s birthdate is established (whether by divining or asking), you can use this data. Eg. if someone´s birthdate is 4/12/1973 you can force or ´justify´ the following numbers: 2,3,4,7,9,12.
There´s usually some way you can force many numbers this way, but if desperate for an out, I ask for their starsign and then, regardless of the answer, say "In that case add 8"... etc." With slick presentation this all works well. bb |
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gio Loyal user Genova - Italy 247 Posts |
Regarding math forces you can probably check Karl Fulves's "Self-Working Number Magic"; I'm not sure though (I don't have it here to check).
Gio |
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