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Ralf Lauren New user 6 Posts |
Hi!
I don`t know the details. But somehow A.de Cova didn`t go along with the other magis or the other way around. He was in Asia for a few months and rumour says, he lives know in Turin / Italy. You are right. He was and is one of the best magicians around. It`s very sad that we don`t see him anymore. Ralf |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Enjoyed the comments by the good doctor here above. Mike, good points on the retention vanish and its usages. But I still have to say that if all that is true, of the guys you mentioned, then perhaps Mickey Silver has just found another way to present all this.
You mention about it not to be so obvious as a move, but Mickey seems to do just that. He leads you into him putting it into his left hand, most times slowly enough for you to undeniably follow it there. The "move" is the magic and is the impetus behind the whole presentation. Though it seemingly wasn't thought of to be used like that, clearly it can be and most effectively. When Mickey uses it, it doesn't seem at all to be being used as you describe it "ought" to be used. That being said, he then takes you on a miraculous ride with it. So, it's not just about the vanish itself but moreso about what the vanish leads you into and how it (and Mickey) make you chase it. He doesn't seem to ever simply vanish the coin via retention just to get to some other part of a routine...on the contrary, the vanish seems to be the routine as it shows itself throughout his work. Seems like a new way of why and how with this thing. Very different than anything I've seen others use it for. Your point about if you make it basically look like it's in the other hand then that's the point of it and that's that...That's the way I felt about the move before seeing Mickey Silver take it completely somewhere else that folks pretty much were told the road was closed on... Seems there's miles of road beyond such stop signs if you have a mind and ability to move pass them.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Aside from admiring Mickey's style, what else do you like about the retention pass?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
JT, I think I touched on that. Though you seem to say that I'm just caught up on Mickey's style, I thought I quite clearly mentioned how I saw the retention pass, not just as a "move" but as a road map sorta to lands unknown. Yeah, I like the way Mickey does his thing with it, but it's more the whole effect and presence that's made better by Mickey's in-depth understanding and use of it.
More deeply, to me it's not about the coin being thought being left in the left hand, but the mind being left there. And then all of the sudden you're trying to follow something without your mind (or at least all of it) , and or you're always one step or so behind having control of it again in trying to stay up with what Mickey is doing, even though you see every thing made logical right before you (he goes back and unmistakenly shows it to you), even when you're not sure. At one time to me (and I see to some others here great and small) that the retention vanish was just a vanish, a cute one, but just a vanish, a nice part of something else, something bigger in a coin trick or routine. Well, it's a lot more than that in the right hands, just like a scalpel is a lot more than just a knife. To me, Mickey has shown that it is more specifically a "key" that when in the right hands can unlock a lot more than just your run-of-the-mill, "Now you see it, now you don't." That's what I think, how about you?
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
My postion is very clear as cited above and repeated below:
Eye candy Asks for attention That you might not want When they look later
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Yeah, I read your response before as that. But thought you might've addressed my responses to your "why's" rather than just only repeating your points about it here. But let's look at them, if you will. Eye candy - To me, all of magic is eye candy. All of magic not only asks for your attention, but in fact demands it. So, I guess I'm wondering just what are you so as you say "clearly" saying?
Anyway, I clearly think (at least I think I'm clearly thinking here) Mickey's use of this retention pass in his special way does not mind you "looking later." In fact, you can look all you want. It's never where you think it is, even when you think so most definitely. I think the work creates a rather interesting illusion all via the ROV. Someone has figured out how to move the mental image all over the place. So it's not just to hide something anymore, which seemingly that's all people used it for. Really, it's all "eye candy" JT...And perhaps when they "look later" just be able to show it. It can be done and clearly Mickey has done it with what most thought was left just as skin & bones of the pass. Apparently, there was quite a lot of meat still there for someone that could see it and use it.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
What happens after you put something in your hand, in a more ordinary way, and they wonder why you did it differently?
This just one of the reasons some folks took the other path of making their sleights work under cover of natural actions, so they could by without attracting attention. Such an approach pays dividends later when consistency issues allow the performer to continue doing the same actions while managing more than just a few coins.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Hmmmm...JT, gotta say with all due respect here, that I think you might be over-thinking this just a bit. Guess any trick or routine can be second-guessed ad infinitum with what-ifs and how-abouts. I don't see people doing that too much beyond that of the specialists. Just my view, but I can't imagine spectators or an audience wondering what you're putting forth here. I think they'd still be in shock, as most are telling by the responses in the many strings here.
And I think Mickey works a lot of his magic under natural-enough actions. But in all this regarding the retention, it seems to me that nearly everyone else (those "folks" you mentioned) took the other path and stayed to the main road as proscribed by others that I guess supposedly know better. I guess Mickey took the road less traveled in all this, and I for one am glad he did because he found something very different, something folks didn't think or didn't know was there. Not exactly sure of your meaning in your last point, but I've seen Mickey handle more than one coin using this while doing the same actions and it's quite spectacular. With dividends paid in astonishment and lingering applause and memories...What other "payments" are there for a thing so well done that has delivered such amazement and enjoyment?
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Other folks took other direction because they can not do what mickey does and it was never seen before, so there was nothing to copy..
Ill say one thing if Mickey would to put his dvd out tomorrow just on this SUV he would sell over 20 thousand world wide.... vinny |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Those who've read the literature will remember I let loose the retention-to-Edge-Grip stuff back in the late 1970s. OBVIOUSLY I can do a retention pass, as both a put and take, and have even published one using a ball. Sure I like the thing. Mickey has a particularly convincing handling of the sleight. And a great "convincer" sleight too.
HOWEVER, I also know from experience that my routines are received as more magical when I can separate the "ordinary" actions from those that invoke the "magic". A simple way to learn this lesson quickly is to put a row of four or five coins in front of yourself, STAND UP, now vanish each coin using EXACTLY the same apparent actions. This is where folks will go running to their Goshman tapes, and their Roth tapes and look how those guys worked on the thing, and then start to think about the matter in some detail. Is all magic eye candy? Inner eye candy perhaps. Would I buy Mickey's video on the retention and convincer, sure, and from him directly.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Just wondering JT, has your vast thinking and experience ever taken you with the retention pass to where you see Mickey is right now? Have your thoughts been everywhere on this that Mickey's has been and shown? Have you been somewhere already that this guy has yet to get to with all this? Just asking as you reinforce your comments with your credentials/experiences. I guess that's what they're for...
Anwyay, your oppinion here is most respected as clearly you know your stuff, but since we can't know everything (and that's the only thing I absolutely know for sure) then perhaps Mickey might know a thing-or-two more about this than even you perceive. He's certainly shown that he does. Don't you think moreso than not? As for your suggestion...again not exactly sure of what you mean in all this, but I've seen him vanish a coin pretty much in the exact same fashion, about 10-15 times (not just 5) and I didn't wonder once about Roth or Goshman (actually I forgot about them) , pretty sure Mickey didn't either and doubt if anyone else thought that way as they watched, perhaps not even Roth. Hey, at least we kinda agree on the "eye candy" stuff some what.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
If it helps to get things in perspective, Mickey's vanish for a single coin, and in some contexts more than just one coin, is better eye candy than my work. Ramsay student here. I'd rather fool their inner eye than invite attention to my hands. It's a choice. I choose to work toward making my transfers and sleights "invisible" or not noticed. This was not a prescribed path. It was a choice. Sure I can and do vanish four coins in a row when sitting at a table. Hands empty each time. That's NOT what I do for laymen anymore.
When Mickey lets his methods out, I hope to see more people using them and enjoying the options they provide. How could you forget about Roth or Goshman? It's when you are doing a few coin vanishes in a row that things get interesting. This is where T. Nelson Downs set the second hurdle to wannabees way back in 1900. You can do almost anything to get one coin to vanish. Things get interesting by the third and fourth coins. See how far you can go. The exercise I described is a way to gain perspective on what is worth using and when things are useful. Enjoy.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Thanks JT, like I said, I enjoy your comments. Oh, I didn't really forget about those guys, just couldn't seem to keep my mind on them as I was chasing Mickey's SUV presentations all about... Hard to remember anything when you're watching that stuff in full-flight. Absolutely amazing!
Again, thanks for your insight and thoughts on all this. I guess it's all a matter of preferences, abilities, and just whose eyes the "candy" is for. Interesting. Good talk, JT.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-11-10 15:55, Mb217 wrote: He puts a coin in his hand, he looks happy...you feel happy. He opens his hand, and there is no coin. What happens next on the emotional side there is also interesting. I hope he explains and teaches so others can learn to do that. The fact that the coin is gone is secondary to that sentimental/emotional process he uses in his magic.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
I just recieved Mickey's demo DVD, FREE I might add.
The guy just seems so happy to share his magic, and magic in general. Very generous I might add. It is just a demo, but it is something els, and to share it is wonderfull. I have just a few things to say about Mickey's take on the retention vanish. What new can be said though? First I hade no idea what to expect when I hear that he shows the coin in that hand after he does the retantion vanish. When I saw what he did I thought 'My god, what an obvious soution! And WOW, how briliant a solution too.' His addition here is phenomonal. I just love it. As for his actual retention vanish, I loved that, what was it called, silver fall? That just looked beautiful. Again so simple yet so good. The best ones always are. When he did just a straight forward retention pass however, I thought that there was just too much visible movment of the fingers. But this is a problem I have with most retention pass'. It still looked beutiful in his hands. I think it looked even better and mor convincing however in his mouth and ear oddly enough. But again that's just me. Still briliant work. The only other thing I have to say is that my lord what a character he is. When he first spoke I almost fell out of my chair. When he perfomrs it was mostly silent. And he does so with such a character to him. The kind of playfull movement that you might expect from a gentle childrens show magician (the character that one would use in a childrens show that is.) But when Mickey spoke, he had such a think Brooklyn accent that I just did not expect. I hope you don't think I'm poking fun or anything Mickey. I just have to admit that I did not expect the thick, though (I think that's just conotative with that type of accent)sounding Brooklyn accent. Almost as unexpected and surpirising ans your magic Mickey. Just great work. P.s. Mickey's SUV goes beyond the retention pass in my humble opinion.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Mickey is from a town outside of Boston.
Brooklyn would not have him LOL.......... vinny |
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Rob Elliott Elite user Reston VA 487 Posts |
Mickey (and his accent) are from Boston, Mass.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
My bad
I'm from Canada, eh. I wouldn't really now I guess. Thanks for the correction. Did I just say 'My bad'???
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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mike gallo Inner circle 1341 Posts |
Mike Gallo's flash retention between the fingers is killer but for me Mickey Silver's SUV is untouchable. Not simply for the remarkable vanish he does, but in the many ways he can manipulate and incorporate that into so many routines
MB217, hanks for the compliment on my "flash retention" (I didn't know it had a name...lol). But I have one simple question...how can Mickey incorporate or manipulate his vanish that no other retention vanish can do? This is not to knock Mickey's vanish in any way...as it is very good. I just don't understand why you think he can do more with it than anyone else can do with any other retention vanish. Mike |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-11-10 17:44, vinsmagic wrote: Actually I'm not practising his magic..I'm practising his accent..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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