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Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2011-10-07 04:46, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-10-05 18:14, Woland wrote:
Magnus, make light of it all you want, but you of all people should be aware that the jihadi extremists explicitly agitate for the imposition of Shariah law all over the world, and the replacement of all other governments by a Caliphate. Shariah law is totalitarian, and ideally governs all aspects of private and public life, including prison menus in Ohio. They are serious about their aims, and willing to kill anyone who stands in their way.


I agree.


But are the people advocating for Hallal meals in Ohio prisons "jihadi extremists"? Or is this just racist stereotyping? I vote B.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
GlenD
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You never hear a word about separation of church and state when it comes to any similar situation with regards to accommodating muslim demands. Why are they catered to rather than being shot down by the separation clause of the first ammendment?
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
Woland
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Of course you do, Magnus. But the fact is, the jihadi agenda is being successfully advanced because of the fear of terror attacks.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2011-10-07 09:35, GlenD wrote:
You never hear a word about separation of church and state when it comes to any similar situation with regards to accommodating muslim demands. Why are they catered to rather than being shot down by the separation clause of the first ammendment?


Jewish prisoners get Kosher food in Ohio. Why do you hold a double standard?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
GlenD
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I'm not in favor of their receiving kosher food when in prison. Sorry you lose a few citizenship type of rights as to what you get to eat, wear etc when you're a ward of the state. I'm an equal opportunist on this one.
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
Woland
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There is a difference between providing Kosher food to those who require it, on the one hand, and removing pork from all prison menus for all prisoners, on the other hand.
Magnus Eisengrim
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GlenD: OK. What about communion? Christian prisoners can have communion in prison. Does that bother you?

Woland: The request from the prisoners was for Hallal food, not for a pork ban, as already discussed. Someone within the system opted for a pork ban, which satisfied no one.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Big Jeff
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ISLAM is NOT a race.
Woland
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Magnus, that's my point exactly. Due to a fear of terrorism, the authorities are instituting Shariah law even when that was not explicitly demanded by the inmate who sued. This illustrates why and how Al Qaeda is winning.
critter
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I'm fine with accomodating everyone's religious traditions, even people who are being otherwise punished. This kind of respect for others' religions is what seperates a civilized person from an uncivilized one.
But I am not happy with the results here. It is not okay to force those peoples' religious traditions on everyone else.
If Charles Manson wants a porkchop, give Charles Manson a pork chop! (Okay, that last sentence was meant to be ironic. The rest I meant.)
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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Woland
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What if an integral part of someone's religious tradition is that it be forced on everyone else in the world?
Matthew W
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If you don't want to have to complain about what you are being served in prison, don't get your ass landed in prison. If you are in prison, you are being punished for something. Eat what you are served or don't eat.
-Matt
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2011-10-07 12:28, Woland wrote:
Magnus, that's my point exactly. Due to a fear of terrorism, the authorities are instituting Shariah law even when that was not explicitly demanded by the inmate who sued. This illustrates why and how Al Qaeda is winning.


Either that or he thought that he found a cheap and easy solution to his "problem". And failed.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
critter
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Quote:
On 2011-10-07 12:51, Matthew W wrote:
If you don't want to have to complain about what you are being served in prison, don't get your ass landed in prison. If you are in prison, you are being punished for something. Eat what you are served or don't eat.


Kindly send the above message to Muhammad Ali.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
critter
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Quote:
On 2011-10-07 12:37, Woland wrote:
What if an integral part of someone's religious tradition is that it be forced on everyone else in the world?


For what it's worth, I won't drop a plane on you if you don't meditate.

OK for serious though; My tolerance does have limits. My basic guiding principal is that I accept everyone's religious practices until they try to force them on me.
There may be exceptions, but I can't think of them right now.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
critter
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This may or may not be of interest to anyone:
"Prisoners given some control over their environments... exhibit less stress, exhibit fewer health problems, and commit less vandalism..."
Sources:
Ruback, R.B., Carr, T.S., & Hoper, C.H. "Percieved Control in Prison" from the Journal of Applied Social Psychology, 1986. Volume 16.
Wener, R., Frazier, W., & Farbstein, J. "Building Better Jails" from Psychology Today, June 1987.

Not a huge thing, nor should this necessarily have any influence on the conversation. But related and kind of interesting.
I highlighted the vandalism part because the stress and health problems may or may not matter depending on personal views, but the vandalism is externally directed.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Magnus Eisengrim
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In case you can't tell, I think prisoners should have legitimate religious needs met. This would include diet, prayers, religious texts, access to religious leaders, etc. It is common here in Alberta for Aboriginal prisoners to have periodic access to Elders and a sweatlodge. None of this seems at all unreasonable to me.

Other requests would need to be considered on a case-by-case basis. Some requests may be unreasonable; some may not. But if any of the above help prisoners to establish mental and spiritual health, why in the world would we want to deny it?

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Jonathan Townsend
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Is loss of limb and decapitation for certain crimes part of the Sharia law they want to live under?
If so, why would those who have been convicted of such crimes go there?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
landmark
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Quote:
On 2011-10-07 12:37, Woland wrote:
What if an integral part of someone's religious tradition is that it be forced on everyone else in the world?

I've been trying to get them to open the schools on Christmas for years, but no one will listen.
rockwall
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Quote:
On 2011-10-07 20:16, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-10-07 12:37, Woland wrote:
What if an integral part of someone's religious tradition is that it be forced on everyone else in the world?

I've been trying to get them to open the schools on Christmas for years, but no one will listen.


Wow. I'll bet if you succeed, that'll get the union pretty mad at you!
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