The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » The Authentic Indian Cups and Balls (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24223 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
He probably performs it in English from time to time. He speaks English.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
cupsandballsmagic
View Profile
Inner circle
2706 Posts

Profile of cupsandballsmagic
Quote:
On 2011-10-15 21:39, Bill Palmer wrote:
Me, too.

BTW, regarding Eddie Joseph, according to friends of mine who knew him well, he was better at writing up cups and balls moves than he was at doing any of the routines.

Bill, I can see why they may have said that. I think his books should have a disclaimer! I don't believe mot of his stuff was used in the real world (or even tested out) at all.

Bri
Quote:
Here is the magic I brought back (in a limited amount.)

http://s1093.photobucket.com/albums/i427/jadoosmagic/

These cups are designed functionally to help enable you to execute many different types of moves efficiently.
The balls are very special.

Gary,

These look terrific! I have a set of Morrissey curtai.... erm I mean cups and they (IMHO) are not fit for purpose, these look great.
Bri
Gary Kosnitzky
View Profile
Elite user
409 Posts

Profile of Gary Kosnitzky
Quote:
On 2011-10-15 22:36, jazzy snazzy wrote:
Has Shankar Jr.'s patter ever been translated to English?
I am curious to hear how it sounds.

Cheppum Panthum was learned word for word the same way for a very long time.
It has always started -

Indha cheppu kali,Indha cheppu kali,Indha cheppu kali -
This cup is empty, this cup is empty, this cup is empty.

The rest of the patter is just the same. You are simply describing your actions.
In English it would sound too pedestrian. I learned all the Dravidian patter and sometimes throw a little in.
Some of the words like - Djigga, jaa, jaa, da, timi taka taa - mean nothing at all.
I will include the Dravidian patter with all the routines in the book.
Rediscover a lost art.

www.jadoosmagic.com
cupsandballsmagic
View Profile
Inner circle
2706 Posts

Profile of cupsandballsmagic
It was performed on the best of magic many years ago with the correct patter cadence etc, it was wonderful to watch. I'll see if I can find it on youtube
Tilman
View Profile
Regular user
146 Posts

Profile of Tilman
Quote:
On 2011-10-16 07:59, Gary Kosnitzky wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-10-15 22:36, jazzy snazzy wrote:
Has Shankar Jr.'s patter ever been translated to English?
I am curious to hear how it sounds.

Cheppum Panthum was learned word for word the same way for a very long time.
It has always started -

Indha cheppu kali,Indha cheppu kali,Indha cheppu kali -
This cup is empty, this cup is empty, this cup is empty.

The rest of the patter is just the same. You are simply describing your actions.
In English it would sound too pedestrian.
I learned all the Dravidian patter and sometimes throw a little in.
Some of the words like - Djigga, jaa, jaa, da, timi taka taa - mean nothing at all.
I will include the Dravidian patter with all the routines in the book.

Hello Gary,

Do you know in which Dravidian language the patter is (and whether it's used in its currently spoken form in the patter)?
And does that give us an idea of the origins of the trick?

Kind regards,
Tilman
Gary Kosnitzky
View Profile
Elite user
409 Posts

Profile of Gary Kosnitzky
I was told that it was Malayalam and I was also told it was Tamil.
I really don't know for sure.
As far as the origins of this trick is concerned not even Vazahkunnam had any idea.

I have a theory that the answer possibly may be in the artifacts concerning recreational gaming found in Mohenjo Daro.
One out of every 10 artifacts dug up in Mohenjo Daro was related to some kind of recreational gaming such as chess, playing cards, marbles and other unknown games with small balls. This means that the Europeans did not invent chess and playing cards or games with small balls.
I strongly believe that the coconut cups and balls were the precursor to the 3 shell game and they all originated in the Indus Valley 3500- 5000 years ago.
You would make more money from this as a gambling scam than a trick.
But what do I know?
Rediscover a lost art.

www.jadoosmagic.com
fortasse
View Profile
Inner circle
1196 Posts

Profile of fortasse
Gary :

I clicked on the YouTube link in your original post but it says "Video removed by User". Will you be re-posting it?

Fortasse
Pete Biro
View Profile
1933 - 2018
18559 Posts

Profile of Pete Biro
The first time I saw Shankar Jr., perform his routine I was really enthralled. He spoke in a high voice (he was quite young) and it didn't matter that we could not understand his language. He gave me a set of cups and I began working on the routine, and subsequently found cups to market and created a new move with the cups. This is written up in my book "Indian Cups and Balls." When I devised my routine I talked about seeing a young boy do it and give you my impression of him. I speak in a high falsetto voice and my words are "Double Talk" fake words and I find it goes over much better doing this.

So... I tried the same thing with my Western Cups using "fake" Hungarian words (my family is from Budapest).
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Tilman
View Profile
Regular user
146 Posts

Profile of Tilman
I was told by Shankar Jr. that the language he speaks when performing the cups and balls is typically not understood by his Indian audiences either. I imagine that his introduction of the trick for audiences in his state (Karnataka, where people would understand Kannada, Urdu or Telugu) could be pretty much the one he uses for English-speaking audiences: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DMviA0gbO8
Gary Kosnitzky
View Profile
Elite user
409 Posts

Profile of Gary Kosnitzky
Quote:
On 2011-10-16 11:53, fortasse wrote:
Gary :

I clicked on the YouTube link in your original post but it says "Video removed by User". Will you be re-posting it?

Fortasse

Hi Fortasse,
I will repost another video.
I really was not happy with the lasts video's quality and I thought my performance back then could use more improvement.
I am through the breaking in stage and can do better.
Gary

Quote:
On 2011-10-14 09:00, Stperformer wrote:
Brilliant stuff Gary. Loved it!

Are you selling some of the Indian cups you brought back?

I have the smaller Morrisey, but am looking for something larger.

Nelson

Hi Nelson,

I am selling the cups and wand only at the moment.
They are $175.
I am writing 3 books to be published ASAP.
There are a limited amount of cups.
You may purchase them now if you want to make sure you get them.

http://s1093.photobucket.com/albums/i427/jadoosmagic/

Gary
Rediscover a lost art.

www.jadoosmagic.com
Stperformer
View Profile
Loyal user
289 Posts

Profile of Stperformer
Gary, I'm interested. Smile

Will the cups cover a golf ball?
What are the inner dimensions?
Cheers,
Nelson
Woland
View Profile
Special user
680 Posts

Profile of Woland
I'm wondering if some of those syllables aren't the same or at least based on the syllables used in Carnatic music to represent rhythmic beats of different kinds.
Gary Kosnitzky
View Profile
Elite user
409 Posts

Profile of Gary Kosnitzky
Quote:
On 2011-10-16 18:44, Woland wrote:
I'm wondering if some of those syllables aren't the same or at least based on the syllables used in Carnatic music to represent rhythmic beats of different kinds.

I wondered if there was a connection to Carnatic music also. We think alike. I was told that the meaninless syllables were the equivalent to the meaningless syllables one might hear in our songs and nursery ryhmes, similar to "Do Wah Diddy Diddy" by Manfred Mann.
Not too many people in India even heard of the Indian Cups and Balls. You can't even buy a decent set of cups in a Magic Shop there. I have put more work in this than any Indian magicians I have come across. Just like Mr. Palmer mentions in his previous post:

"I have seen Indian performers who tried to do something that resembled Cheppum Panthum, but it wasn't the real thing."
This is so true.
The real work on Cheppum Panthum has become so obscure that most magicians in India have absolutely no knowledge of any kind about this trick. I found this very odd and very inspiring.

Posted: Oct 16, 2011 9:27pm
Great news!
I was just informed by my partner in India that the Vazahkunnam Estate has endorsed all of my Cups and Work. I am ecstatic to have the nod of approval from such an honorable family and legendary name in Indian magic.
Rediscover a lost art.

www.jadoosmagic.com
Dr_J_Ayala
View Profile
Inner circle
In search of Vlad Dracul and his
2167 Posts

Profile of Dr_J_Ayala
Quote:
On 2011-10-16 21:27, Gary Kosnitzky wrote:
Great news!!!!!!

I was just informed by my partner in India that the Vazahkunnam Estate
has endorsed all of my Cups and Work.
I am ecstatic to have the nod of approval from such an honorable family and legendary name in Indian magic.


CONGRATULATIONS! Wow! - that is absolutely fantastic! That really would take a lot of hard work and dedication to get your work to the point of even being recognized by such an entity, let alone endorsed by it. It says a lot about your skill and your abilities within this particular niche of the world of Cups and Balls magic.
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24223 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
Gary -- That is excellent news, indeed! You must really feel great about that.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Harry Murphy
View Profile
Inner circle
Maryland
5288 Posts

Profile of Harry Murphy
Gary the endorsement by the Vazahkunnam Estate is quite the coup! Good show old bean! You may be the one person to carry this great tradition forward into the new millennium and keep it alive.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
Gary Kosnitzky
View Profile
Elite user
409 Posts

Profile of Gary Kosnitzky
I hope everyone who wants to do this understands that this is not E-Z.
It took me many months just get used to half lotus posture.
I thinned down to allow myyself to sit more comfortably and be able to get up easily.
In the beginning I could only sit for 2-5 minutes. Now I can sit all day(if I had to.)
Most of the moves require you to be able to do them with either hand.
You need to be very proficient at CP'ing a small ball in both hands.
If you can do these things then the rest is just practice.
I can not guarantee your success, only you can.
Rediscover a lost art.

www.jadoosmagic.com
lint
View Profile
Special user
Concord, CA
959 Posts

Profile of lint
Gary, such great news to hear about your work and endorsements. I am very excited to pick up the books you put out. I hope you enjoy continued success. Thank you for helping the "true" work survive.

-todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
Gary Kosnitzky
View Profile
Elite user
409 Posts

Profile of Gary Kosnitzky
Thank you Todd,
Your on the list.

Gary
Rediscover a lost art.

www.jadoosmagic.com
maharajademagia
View Profile
Regular user
126 Posts

Profile of maharajademagia
Quote:

On 2011-10-12 17:20, Gary Kosnitzky wrote:
I will put up a professionally made video.



We are waiting.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » The Authentic Indian Cups and Balls (5 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.24 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL