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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
A good magician can help marketing and sales over the long term it would seem. Why would a restaurant hire a band or any entertainment? Marketing. Marketing is very important in any business and in my view, good food is the bare minimum expected of any restaurant. Most restaurants already serve good food, so why should a potential customer choose a particular restaurant when he has all these options available to him that already offer great food? If all a restaurant does is serve great food and that restaurant is faced with stiff competition who also know how to market, my hunch is that restaurant will have a tougher time staying in business. In any business, magician or restaurant business, it takes money to make money and it takes time before investments bear fruit.
Wealth just isn't instantly created. It takes time, patience, hard work and investing your own money and putting your own money into your business (if you are a business owner who is self employed and owns his own business). You only get out of a business what you put into it. It might be difficult to accurately measure the worth of a magician to a restaurant over the long haul, unless of course, somebody has found a way to track expenditures on the magician and if their was a return on investment.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
First of all, I'll say this again, it is not our job to increase sales. That is the restaurant manager's job. If they see providing entertainment as something that will keep their restaurant afloat, then so be it. But it is THEIR job to do that. Imagine if you owned a restaurant and a band came in and said, "I will increase your sales because people like our music." Would you believe them?
Second of all, just because you have good entertainment doesn't mean people want to constantly go back to your restaurant. How many restaurants can you think of that you love? Now how often do you go there? Every time you want to eat out? I don't think so. People like variety, and entertainment isn't the only reason people choose a place to eat. Sometimes, they just like the food! Entertainment is to ENHANCE the atmosphere. It is not the only thing that leads to good sales. It can be a factor, but it is not something that you can promise will be the sole factor that increases sales. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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First of all, I'll say this again, it is not our job to increase sales. In most instances, we are not there to directly increase sales. But we could indirectly increase sales (and marketing is selling and restaurants like to hire us as part of their marketing strategy, if not then restaurants wouldn't hire bands or entertainers or bring out the karaoke; restaurants wouldn't bother hiring entertainers then) over the long term because people want to come back and see us because we do a good job of entertaining them and they like the atmosphere of the restaurant. One place I frequent, I go for both the atmosphere and because they have a quality product. If they just had only a quality product, I probably would not frequent this particular place that much. Sometimes a restaurant might ask for a magical solution to a business problem and I think we as magicians should not shy away from trying to offer solutions to help our clients. Magicians are businessmen and it is expected that we come up with business solutions to help our clients when we can.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
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On 2011-11-01 10:55, General_Magician wrote: In all instances we are not there to directly increase sales. We are there to generate foot traffic because we are an attraction. We are not food salesman. That is exactly my point; if we cause an increase in sales it is an indirect result of our services as entertainers. It is not our sole job to increase sales. If you are promising that, you are living in a dream. Quote:
Sometimes a restaurant might ask for a magical solution to a business problem and I think we as magicians should not shy away from trying to offer solutions to help our clients. Magicians are businessmen and it is expected that we come up with business solutions to help our clients when we can. Once again, there are plenty of business oriented magicians. But if you are going to be one, you need to know your role. There is a difference between creating awareness and generating sales. It is important to learn the difference so you are not promising unrealistic things, and so you can make your business as a magician as effective as possible. |
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eatonmagic Special user Orlando, FL 737 Posts |
Gentlemen,
These are all great points and like I mentioned before, we NEVER make a promise to increase business. What we do offer is a service to these places that IN TIME will hopefully show an increase in return business and make it a favorable selection for guests when deciding to go out. The beautiful part of being a nationwide group is that let's say a guest who has come to Orlando from Chicago on business visits a restaurant we perform at. We can help deliver an amazing moment for that guest by allowing the restaurant to prepare an amazing meal and then we step in with incredible and personable magic. THEN as the guests are about to leave we give them our business card and mention that when he gets back home to Chicago, they can look up our website, punch in their zip code and find one of our trained and certified magicians in their own hometown. Just like a brand or corporate restaurant we deliver the same high level of customer service and quality. In addition, your aim is whatever you make it to be. If you go into a restaurant only wanting to be a magician than THAT'S what you'll be known as and treated as. However, if you go in with a different mindset and offer something like this, IMO you truly set yourself apart from other magicians. Our company doesn't just offer magic, we have a full-time PR firm that we've hired in addition to a social media specialist. We have an in-house design team that works side by side with corporate's marketing and branding team, an accounting firm that bills our partners on a net 30 and pays our performers. We have a loyal fan base of customers that KNOW that they have a few places they can visit where they know they are going to have a great time and they can bring out their friends and families as well. So if you don't think that we're unique enough I'd have to disagree with you. Danny...we don't just set up shop anywhere and our services aren't for everyone. Our list of performers isn't THAT big and I never said it was...all I said is that we selected some out of many to represent us. But for those companies that are looking to add a unique dimension to their business we are the perfect choice. So if our costs are reasonable, our product is deliverable, our service is impeccable and we can track and prove that we have increased business why wouldn't it be okay for a restaurant owner to talk to us? We have TONS of satisfied clients. We have a contract with the Orlando Magic basketball team. A multi-million dollar organization that has come to us and asked us to be their official magicians for their fans. Disney, Universal...any of these names ring a bell? World-class hospitality and service is what these groups specialize in and yet they have asked us and our performers to help create a magical moment for their guests. Obviously we have been doing something right. I see that you provide a service to a chain of luxury hotels yet when I Google reviews of these hotels I see some that are great and some that really suck. Do you see me sitting here criticizing you and your job? NO. That's not me. I fully support your efforts in whatever it is you do because I trust you know what you're doing and you are a professional. Why should we deserve any less? |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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if we cause an increase in sales it is an indirect result of our services as entertainers. Yes, which is exactly why restaurants hire entertainers. If they didn't think it would help increase their sales in any way, restaurants simply wouldn't bother taking a chance hiring entertainers. Entertainment and atmosphere is part of a restaurant's marketing efforts. It's part of the package to their product which is food. Now this package is not something that is a tangible box which can be set on a shelf. A restaurant's packaging for it's product is intangible. Nobody can guarantee that a magician or any entertainer is going to increase sales, but, obviously a good entertainer can provide some marketing value to a restaurant. Quote:
If you are promising that, you are living in a dream. I personally don't promise that to restaurants, but, if we think logically about this, if restaurants have great food and their patrons are entertained, wouldn't it make sense that customers come back and perhaps also generate positive word of mouth advertising for the restaurant which might lead to new customers? Word of mouth advertising can make or break a business. Entertainment, especially personalized entertainment, can also help (though not guarantee) to prevent the costs of customer attrition (attrition that comes from unhappy customers such as when an order is not made properly). A restaurant has competition and most restaurants that want to succeed want to be the "the place to be" when it comes to going out to eat. Most restaurants already offer great food and if a restaurant wants to be "the place to be" and to succeed, then in most cases, it would logically seem, it's going to need more than just great food. The packaging to it's product (figuratively speaking) is going to have to be more desirable than the packaging of it's competitor's product.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
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On 2011-11-01 11:11, eatonmagic wrote: I see that you provide a service to a chain of luxury hotels yet when I Google reviews of these hotels I see some that are great and some that really suck. Do you see me sitting here criticizing you and your job? NO. That's not me. I fully support your efforts in whatever it is you do because I trust you know what you're doing and you are a professional. Why should we deserve any less? Yea here we go. Funny how you jump to attacking clients of others who question you LOL. It is predectable. Happens every time. I didn't say a word about your clients, why should I deserve any less? Very professional I must say. But again I can see you fart rainbows and poop puppies. You guys are really onto something. Good for you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
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On 2011-11-01 11:11, eatonmagic wrote: Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make some sort of huge attack on you, but even on your (personal) website you say, "How would you like to increase sales without having to pay an arm and a leg?" So, you while you may not be saying, "I promise," what you are saying is a pretty big assumption that it will increase sales. Professional Marketers know that the best forms of marketing solutions are the ones that can be tracked and show the effectiveness of it. I simply think the phrase "time will hopefully show an increase" is a pretty empty slogan. I think it wrong to say that you are providing a sales solution when you can't even show direct results. You say you don't do that on your national service, and I'll take your word for it. I actually think that building a national service is a pretty cool idea, so I applaud you on that one sir. My point from before is that I think magicians need to learn to define what they are offering before they offer it. I think they should also learn the difference between PR, marketing, and sales before they take the business oriented approach. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
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On 2011-10-31 01:47, eatonmagic wrote: In what way is this not a promise to increase the bottom line? I am confused. You say you don't promise this only hopefully it will happen, yet right here you promsie it. Can you see why some of us may be a bit confused?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Marketing is sales Dave. Businesses generally have a marketing strategy from a strategic standpoint and then rely on proficient salesmen on a tactical level to carry out the strategy in highly proficient manner. At least good businesses do. Or, if you are a one man business, you have a marketing strategy and you must have good sales skills to carry out your strategy from a tactical point of view.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
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On 2011-11-01 11:53, General_Magician wrote: No, its not. Marketing is marketing. Sales are sales. Marketing can lead to sales, but they are not the same thing. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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No, its not. Marketing is marketing. Sales are sales. Marketing can lead to sales, but they are not the same thing. I disagree. Heck we all market ourselves everyday from the clothes we wear to our personality and the way we interact with people.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales Wow it appears sales IS NOT MARKETING! You get pretty close with your explination though LOL.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
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On 2011-11-01 11:57, General_Magician wrote: Just because you disagree doesn't mean its true. You are comparing apples and oranges my friend. Not all marketers are involved in sales, and not all salesman are involved in marketing. They are two different things. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
That's the book, wikipedia definition perhaps, but not the real world definition. We all market ourselves everyday (either negatively or positively). Some people have a pleasing personality, which if they chose to sell something to somebody, they would probably have more success because people like to buy from other people they like. So your personality is part of your marketing. Marketing is strategic, sales is the tactical efforts to carry out the marketing strategy at the strategic level.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
I am so glad you are here to teach us about the real world. Otherwise we would never know. Thank you so much for making the correction. I will notifiy websters post haste.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
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On 2011-11-01 12:02, General_Magician wrote: I understand what you're trying to explain but it is completely irrelevant from the fact that marketing is not the same thing as sales. We, as magicians, are not in existence to increase sales for restaurants. We may be part of a marketing strategy, and are a great form of public relations. But at no point in time do we, as magicians, generate or participate in sales. If you are, then you must work for the company trying to do the sales. In that case, you are a salesman with a gimmick. There's nothing wrong with that, but please learn to define what you offer before you do it. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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We, as magicians, are not in existence to increase sales for restaurants. But we do have to market and sell ourselves if we want to land gigs. We are all in marketing and sales, whether we realize it or not. Every magician is in marketing and sales. Everybody is in marketing and sales.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
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On 2011-11-01 12:05, General_Magician wrote: Good point. I should really try getting out in the world and see if I could do magic. I may try this thanks. Quote:
On 2011-11-01 12:11, General_Magician wrote: But this has NOTHING to do with the restaurant sales is the point Dave is trying in vain to make.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
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On 2011-11-01 12:11, General_Magician wrote: I don't know why you keep trying to compare 2 completely different things. Obviously we have to market and sell ourselves to land gigs. But we, as magicians, do not work for a restaurant to increase THEIR sales. |
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