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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The Fallen By Jim Critchlow (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Godzilla
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[quote]On 2011-10-31 18:09, DrTodd wrote:
[quote]
I would suggest that there is an effect that does just that Rowland Smile



And,what might that be good sir? Smile

-G
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
docsteve
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And,what might that be good sir? Smile

Luna & Ipswich to name but 2...
[
magicinsight
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Quote:
On 2011-10-30 19:03, thorsten dankworth wrote:
I saw the video and for me it looked like a puzzle but not for a strong emotional effect.
What happens there?
You have 50 or 60 pictures of soldiers who died in the WW1 and you have ca. 10 personal objects. The spectator choose one picture and takes the personal objects specified on that card. Now the "wonderman" is able to tell informations about that person like name, birth date, etc. The explanation for that is psychometry. That´s it.
No matter how strong or clever the method is, if the story has no real emotional hook it leaves the spectator cold as the soldiers on these photos.
The "wonderman" tells the spectator to choose a picture, at least that´s all what the spectator really does. The "wonderman" tells something about psychometry but not even touch the objects "to build up a connection", instead of this the spectator takes 2 objects written down on the back of that picture. 2 from 10 objects (or maybe 12 objects) but with a chance of 60 soldiers...
So, where are the other 100 personal objects? Or did all these poor souls also share their personal objects with each other?
Sorry, but just "the tragedy of war and death" dead soldierpictures shaped is not enough for me for a strong story.

"White star" works because the spectator do "everything" and the story of the titanic is well known, since the movie als o a little bit romantic. It´s "easy" to "weave" an emotional connection to the spectator.

"Til death" may be also. I´m not a big fan of that effect also, but this is another story and nevertheless better than "the fallen" because again the spectator does all the work and there is a traceable story with love and murder.

But to tell something about 1 of 60 soldiers who died in WW1 (like millions of other people too and much more in WW2)and 2 of 10 personal objects looks a little bit unattributed for me. I don´t like the slim storyline.

"The fallen" seems to me in contrast like a puzzle with the touch of card trick and the stale aftertaste of spirit of morbid curiosity.

Not my cup of tea. But of course this is just my personal opinion after seeing the video.
.........

After watching t.he video demo, I have to agree with Thorsten. This is no more than a puzzle. Thorsten is correct is stating that there is no reason why there are only 10-12 artifacts when there are 60 photos of soldiers. It is so obvious from a non magician's viewpoint that some sort of c..e connected with the artifacts that were taken was being used. While perhaps a select few may be able to project a strong emotional hook with this effect, I do not see this effect as being mysterious, interesting or able leaving any spectator/participant with any strong emotions. Some have mentioend taht teh method is great. I do not care about how great the method is if the effect is not strong. I will pass on this.

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Stephen Young
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How many different things do you think these guys carried around with them?
Space was at a premium.
A pack of cards, a pocket knife maybe, a lighter perhaps, a photo of a loved one.

If you asked the next 60 guys you see today "what do you have in your pockets?"
How many different items do you think they'd come up with?
I'd guess less than 20.

Phone, keys, wallet, what else?

If you don't think it's for you, fine.
But to say "This is no more than a puzzle." isn't really fair given the sparse evidence the decision is based on. IMHO

If this is just a puzzle,
what is a Magic Square?
What is 3 card Monte?
What is Cups and balls?
What is sawing a woman in half?
What is any of the Kurotsoku (spelling?) or which hand effects?
What is a psychometry routine?

It is what we make it.
I'll wait until it arrives before I decide if I like it, it fits my style or if it is indeed no more than a puzzle.

regards
Steve
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I've had this for some time - and the potential of it is amazing - it really is what you make of it. As has been mentioned elsewhere, there is an alternative handling (from the one featured in the video). I prefer this route as it enables me to begin with fairly abstract details about the selected soldier and then move to become increasingly more personal. I like this approach - I begin by talking about the scale of human loss, over 35 million casualties, and go on from there. By beginning with this abstact number and the scale, I find the routine has a nice texture when we come to focus on a single individual, which can be reinforced through the objects.

For me, 'The Fallen' is about creating an act of rememberance, where the performer 'remembers' one soldier for all the millions that died in the war.
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After watching t.he video demo, I have to agree with Thorsten. This is no more than a puzzle. Thorsten is correct is stating that there is no reason why there are only 10-12 artifacts when there are 60 photos of soldiers. It is so obvious from a non magician's viewpoint that some sort of c..e connected with the artifacts that were taken was being used. While perhaps a select few may be able to project a strong emotional hook with this effect, I do not see this effect as being mysterious, interesting or able leaving any spectator/participant with any strong emotions. Some have mentioend taht teh method is great. I do not care about how great the method is if the effect is not strong. I will pass on this.

Michael
[/quote]

This is why I love the Café, everyone has there own opinions. I agree that because the spectator handles the props, some people will link this to the method, but as has already been mentioned on here and another thread on the fallen you can do it without the spectator going anywhere near the props. This in my opinion gives the spectator no idea how you could know all the information.
A for a story line WW1 is one of the most signicant events in our life time, come on guys use your imagination Smile
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Quote:
On 2011-11-01 02:25, rowland wrote:
I expected to have some comments regarding my post, which is good. Everyone has their own opinions which of course they are entitled to.Todd, I would love to know the name of the effect you are talking about, if it is indeed better I am sure I and others would be interested in buying it. The fallen like any effect is only as good as the reaction you receive from your spectators. It doesn't matter how much we like it,if it doesn't provoke the kind of reaction we are looking for then we won't use it. This is why, again and it justin my opinion the reviews I trust the most are from people that have the effect and use it. The fallen gets the right reaction for me. This will not sit in a drawer it is a worker.


I am not saying it is bettr I am merely saying that Luna uses a method that is 'invisible' like The Fallen and merely wanted to point this out as it seems you believe The Fallen is the first to do this, but it is not. Luna came out in 2008.

Cheers

Todd
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Quote:
On 2011-11-01 11:31, steveline wrote:
How many different things do you think these guys carried around with them?


One would be enough. One object for every soldier makes 60 objects. If you have two objects (like in the video) you need more. Otherwise the explanation of what you are doing there (psychometry) is just the uninspired waffle of an average magician presenting mentalism. Ok, that sounds unfair too, because "the fallen" is no typical mentalism effect. It´s a bizarre or storytelling routine with a mental background. But anyhow, when I think the audience won´t notice this logical indifference, why should I even tell them something about psychometry? Unfortunatly the psychometry plot is the easiest way to bring the objects into play. But 10 personal objects for 60 people is not "logical".

Quote:
On 2011-11-01 11:31, steveline wrote:

If this is just a puzzle,
what is a Magic Square?
What is 3 card Monte?
What is Cups and balls?
What is sawing a woman in half?
What is any of the Kurotsoku (spelling?) or which hand effects?
What is a psychometry routine?



magic square = a brain puzzle
3 card monte = a slight of hand puzzle
cups and balls = a slight of hand puzzle
half woman = an illusion puzzle
kurotsoku = a "psychic" or psychological experiment
psychometry = an esoteric, mystic, bizare, psychic experiment

I have nothing against puzzle. They can be very entertaining. But I don´t understand why you compare "the fallen" with "3 card monte"?
The monte doesn´t need any story and no reason for what you do there. If you handle the cards proper you can catch the audience just about the effect.
When I present "The little emperor and the cricket" from Borodin, the effect is nothing, it would be rediculous if you use this effect as single "magic effect", but within the context of the story, this little effect and the prop (that has no technical function), you suddenly have an very strong emotional act, because all three parts are in "hormony".
In my opinion "the fallen" goes more in this direction and this is the reason why I´m so unsatisfied with the story in combination with the effect and the props - no "harmony".


Quote:
On 2011-11-01 11:31, steveline wrote:
It is what we make it.


More often than not.
But this is no argument neither for, nor against a routine.

Don´t get me wrong. I don`t want to persuade anybody into doing or not doing something. If you like the routine on the video it´s ok.

I saw the video more than one time and I noticed some points I don´t like as mentioned before and put it up for discussion.
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Personally I'd construct the presentation that all the objects belonged to one person - let the participant feel the items and then they choose a soldier - you then tell them the story behind the objects of that one person - thus making it the sitter who has psychometric powers

I do that with Luna a lot
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TonyMc
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Happy New Year everyone. Jim and I have set up page for The Fallen on Facebook. Why not check it out.

Tony
rowland
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Can you post a link to the page?
TonyMc
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Hi Rowland, I'll try!!!!

Tony
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By the way folks, I've managed to buy three Princess Mary tins in good condition. If anyone wants one, see me or Jim in The Ruskin.
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Just saw the demo, and instantly thought, would it not be better for Jim to maybe have his eyes closed, and be given the objects in his hands.
Then proceed to tell, what he is recieving from the objects. I think having his eyes closed, may add another level of deception to the effect. Saying this, I have no idea of what the method is, so might not make any sense. Just a thought.

Kind Regards.
Myke

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Quote:
On Nov 1, 2011, Stephen Young wrote:
How many different things do you think these guys carried around with them?
Space was at a premium.
A pack of cards, a pocket knife maybe, a lighter perhaps, a photo of a loved one.

If you asked the next 60 guys you see today "what do you have in your pockets?"
How many different items do you think they'd come up with?
I'd guess less than 20.

Phone, keys, wallet, what else? old post but well said 100%

If you don't think it's for you, fine.
But to say "This is no more than a puzzle." isn't really fair given the sparse evidence the decision is based on. IMHO

If this is just a puzzle,
what is a Magic Square?
What is 3 card Monte?
What is Cups and balls?
What is sawing a woman in half?
What is any of the Kurotsoku (spelling?) or which hand effects?
What is a psychometry routine?

It is what we make it.
I'll wait until it arrives before I decide if I like it, it fits my style or if it is indeed no more than a puzzle.

regards
Steve
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I've always thought that the greatest tribute the English could make to 'The Fallen' would be to abolish their royal family who along with the 'royal' families of Germany and Russia started the whole sorry mess.Amazing to think the house of Windsor is a made up name.They were formally known as the house of Saxe Coburg...a German family!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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Mark,

Why just those 3? Royalty all over the world should be abolished. They have caused and are still causing enormous damage to mankind. On hindsight, the French did the right thing, at that time.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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Yes you are right but I mentioned those 3 as they were all cousins who started the First world war.Queen Victoria [known as the 'famine queen in Ireland] was their grandmother. A bit of history for 'The Fallen' that did not come from a PR. firm.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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Well said, Mark. Very sensitive indeed.

'The mother of Europe' spreading haemophilia....hmmm...
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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