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Pablo Tejero
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Hi my friends:

Here is a link to a video: http://www.magicvideodepot.com/view.php?a=v&t=781

There, you could see myself doing a double lift that everybody in Spain thinks that Juan Tamariz invented it, called "Volteo Sobresaliente".

My question is if the movement is really from Juan Tamariz, or anyone of you saw this movement before?

All the best magic,

Pablo Tejero Smile
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Mike Powers
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Hi Pablo,

There was a double lift subtlety in Apocalypse (i believe) awhile back. It involved kicking the top card of the double out a bit as the double was turned over. The double was in alignment with the deck as it was turned over. However the top card of the pair was pushed outward a little ending with a single card outjogged only a half inch or so.

It appears that in your application, the lower card is injogged to end flush with the deck, leaving the upper card outjogged...

Mike
JasonEngland
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As far as I know, the move belongs to Juan. He had it as far back as 1968. An similar idea appeared in Apocalypse as Mike Powers pointed out, but not until about 10 years after Juan had shown the move to several European magicians such as Bernard Bilis, Ascanio, and others.

There is a description of the move in Sonata, along with a nice touch by Ascanio.

Jason
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Paul Chosse
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I cannot download the video, but from the other posts it sounds like you are separating the double as you turn it down, causing one card to end up in register with the deck, and the other, top card, to extend forward a bit. This is an old subtlety. I have been using it, and variations of it, for several decades. The first time I saw it was in conjunction with an unpublished version of Elmsleys' 1002nd Aces, developed by Bill Whittington of San Francisco. That was in the early eighties. Even then, it was not a new idea, having circulated amongst West Coast cardmen like Whittington, Phil White, Matt Corin, etc. for some time. I'm sure that someone will have more information about the published record than I do, but I would be surprised if it hasn't appeared somewhere by now.

Best, PSC
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Scott F. Guinn
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I do not have the knowledge or resources of some of the esteemed cardmen here, but according to my research, it is in fact Tamariz' move. Should someone post research that disproves this, I will happily stand corrected.
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Paul Chosse
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Considering the guys I learned this from, and the circles they were travelling in, Tamariz seems a likely candidate. Scott, where did you find it in print? Sonata, as Jason suggests? or is there another reference? Inquiring minds want to know...

Best, PSC
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Paul Sherman
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Here's what Giobbi (Card College III, p. 580) has to say about the matter:

Quote:
This method for discarding the bottom card of a double on top of the deck was shown to me many years ago by my brilliant friend and mentor, Juan Tamariz, who developed it in 1968. Years later I learned from my Scottish colleague Gordon Bruce that he had developed a very similar method. And to make matters a bit more complicated, it has come to light that Fred Braue, in the late 19502, also developed the same general idea. The exquisite qualities of this sleight mirror those of its several inventors.


Also, according to the endnotes:

The Tamariz sleight was published in Pabular, Vol. 7, No. 1, Jan. 1982, page 970; and was later included in Tamariz's Sonata, page 57.

"The Braue Turndown" is published in The Fred Braue Notebooks, Volume 3, page 25.

Paul
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Pete Biro
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This subtlety of the double turnover was probably independently discovered by many.

I came up with it in the lat '60s or early '70s fiddling with cards, and as Chosse commented it also appeared in San Francisco (I lived in the area) around that time as well.

No doubt that Juan came up with it on his own as well.

It isn't that unlikely. It, when you see it, makes sense and is a logical kind of move.

Smile
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Scott F. Guinn
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Paul Chosse,

Paul Sherman beat me to it in answering your question, but I have the same references that he listed (except for the 3rd volume of the Braue Notebooks--I only received the first one, which was borrowed by a friend who promptly left town with it! Anyone else lose a bundle on the Braue Notebooks?).

I agree with Pete--it's likely that a number of people came up with it independently, as it is a fairly obvious (I don't mean that in a bad way) and clever technique.
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Pablo Tejero
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Thanks for your answers friends.

Then i could say really that the "Volteo Sobresaliente", belongs to Juan Tamariz.

Just a curiosity, in the english version of Sonata, which is the term in english for "volteo sobresaliente"?

All the best magic,

Pablo Tejero Smile
"The Magic is in the air, you just have to... breathe it!"
Paul Chosse
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I'll have to go over the Braue stuff. I have the source material from which Busby was supposed to publish all the Braue Notebooks, as well as the Notebooks that he actually produced. The unpublished material that I have is a copy of the Braue notes that Jeff is supposed to be publishing, as well as a considerable amount of material that Jeff did not have access to. The Braue material that Jeff has and is publishing notebooks from is only a small portion of the total original material! The whole story of that material, how Jeff came into possession of some of it, what happened to the rest of it, what Braue actually intended to do with it, etc. makes an interesting story. A lot of the story is known, and, at one point, Bob Farmer was considering doing something with it, as was Max Abrams. I supplied them with some of the information and material that I have, but then took a vacation from magic, and have no idea what the status of those projects are, now.

Maybe one day all the Braue material will be generally available, and the true story behind it will be told. Now THAT would be fun!

Anyway, thanks to Scott and Paul for the info and for setting me on the trail of the earliest recorded info regarding this DL subtlety, I'll post what I find, if anything...

Best, PSC
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The volteo sobresaliente is not translated in the English "Sonata," but simply renamed the Tamariz Turnover. However, if they had translated it, it would instead be called the projecting (or protruding) turnover.

Es casi como se traducen los títulos de las peliculas del ingles al castellano, ¿no? A veces se pierde mucho.
p.b.jones
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HI,
Personaly I think that "the ghost switch" page 152 of Martin Nash's book "Any second now" is a much better subtlty/slight and the one I use. I like it because the double is never returned to the deck.
Phillip
Gary D
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This subtley is covered on Greg Wilson's tape 'Double take' with some other variations.
On the tape he refers to the move in question as Juan's.
Pablo Tejero
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Quote:
On 2003-09-08 03:05, p.b.jones wrote:
HI,
Personaly I think that "the ghost switch" page 152 of Martin Nash's book "Any second now" is a much better subtlty/slight and the one I use. I like it because the double is never returned to the deck.
Phillip


Hi:

Yes, i´ve heard about it. I must try to buy and read this book.

Also there is a double lift created by Jose Carrol (in his book “52 Lovers”), I think with a similar concept to Martin´s one. You should read it also, very good sleight.

All the best magic,

Pablo Tejero Smile
"The Magic is in the air, you just have to... breathe it!"
JimMaloney
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Quote:
On 2003-09-07 22:10, Paul Chosse wrote:
Anyway, thanks to Scott and Paul for the info and for setting me on the trail of the earliest recorded info regarding this DL subtlety, I'll post what I find, if anything...


Paul,
You may wish to contact Wesley James about this subtlety. In addition to his nice touch on it, he's done some extensive research into the history. I believe you can find some of this detailed in "Enchantments". When I get home tonight, I'll pull that out and post any new info that may give. IIRC, the current use of this does go back to Tamariz, but it's actually older than him.

-Jim
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Gary D
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I think everyone should use the outjog placement subtlety with their DL!
It makes it so much more natural and fool proof.
Roland Henning
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Quote:
On 2004-08-23 09:51, Gary D wrote:
I think everyone should use the outjog placement subtlety with their DL!
It makes it so much more natural and fool proof.


When the spectator is convinced, there is no more need for more subtleties.

mmG Roland
JimMaloney
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Quote:
On 2004-08-23 10:08, Roland Henning wrote:
When the spectator is convinced, there is no more need for more subtleties.


True, but what do you think it is that convinces them?

-Jim
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Mesquita
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This is not only a DL Pablo, on this movement you use the Tamariz Turn Over and this is created by Juan Tamariz.
I hope this help,

Mágico Mesquita
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