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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2011-11-07 13:47, critter wrote: Yes, in real life, criminals love to have both numbers, location and weapons on their side.... Avoidance then survival... There are no medals/trophies in real life conflicts. That is why I admire what these guys in the above mentioned incident did... They even gave the robber advice while restraining him. I don't know if I would've been so nice.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Skill? I have seen more skill used in an handbag fight.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2011-11-07 13:58, tommy wrote: Good, that means less hurting involved. I haven't heard that one before, handbag fighting!
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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There are no medals/trophies in real life conflicts. That's right! The only hero is a dead hero! Some medals just aren't worth it. As far as skill, I have seen some very small, weak looking MMA fighters take on big muscle heads and win easily. It's just a matter of skill, training, experience and being in good shape. Anytime you have to partake in violence whether it be to defend yourself or not, even if you win, you still lose in some way. It's why Sun Tzu wrote that the "acme of skill is to subdue the enemy without fighting."
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2011-11-07 14:40, General_Magician wrote: Meanwhile, Wile E. Coyote wrote that "The ACME rockets never work properly...."
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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Meanwhile, Wile E. Coyote wrote that "The ACME rockets never work properly...." Some acme rockets work properly, in the hands of somebody who is skillful and experienced. Being skillful in martial arts is one way to help achieve the "acme of skill" because of the deterrence factor it offers. But deterrence alone is not always the way to achieve the "acme of skill" as Sun Tzu put it. A combination of deterrence and other methods can help achieve the "acme of skill" which is to win without fighting.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Christopher Lyle Inner circle Dallas, Texas 5698 Posts |
I feel very comforted that I can kill while in the fetal position sucking my thumb....
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius For a Good Time...CLICK HERE! |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Ha ha ha ha! Chris is definitely a good magician. But on a serious note (and I don't always take myself seriously) Sun Tzu's principles are not centered around avoiding confrontation, but strategies to prevent confrontation. Avoidance and prevention are two different things. So, in order to achieve the "acme of skill" in the way Sun Tzu intended it, is by utilizing prevention strategies and not by engaging in avoidance.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
I've gotten out of a few bar fights by educating my would-be assailants on prison rape statistics.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
Jon Jones chased and subdued a criminal only a few hours before his light heavyweight title shot in back in March.
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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critter wrote: And that's the "acme of skill." To win without fighting. Even if you are a good martial artist who is merely defending himself from attackers, you could find yourself getting sued in civil court even if you won the fight against your assailants who attacked you because of the injuries you inflicted on them. So, even if you are defending yourself to survive and win the fight, even if you win, you still lose in some way. Three key principles of Sun Tzu are: 1) Win all without fighting 2) Avoid what is strong and strike what is weak 3) Know yourself and know your enemy Key principles which can help with success and survival.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
I've read Sun Tzu many times. As well as Musashi's Book of Five Rings.
The stuff in Sun Tzu about knowing both the enemy and the self is some of my favorite.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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On 2011-11-08 12:17, critter wrote: I haven't read Musashi's Book of Five Rings. I read Sun Tzu because it was required reading in many parts of the US military. I wanted to be a good, professional soldier and I heard that Sun Tzu was also required reading at West Point. So, I read his book from cover to cover along with the "Secret Art of War." Then I read additional books written by some Marine Corps combat vets of Vietnam and the books showed how Sun Tzu's principles apply today on the modern battlefield. But the great thing about Sun Tzu is that you can apply his principles even if you are not a soldier and in all aspects of life in order to help achieve success and happiness. So to me, Sun Tzu is not only a good teacher to help you be a good soldier, but is a good life teacher. One of my favorite parts of the "Art of War" is the statement "He who wishes to fight must first count the cost." Something anybody should consider if they ever feel the need to fight.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
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One of my favorite parts of the "Art of War" is the statement "He who wishes to fight must first count the cost." Something anybody should consider if they ever feel the need to fight. Absolutely. There was a big fad for Book of Five Rings back in the 90's because it was touted as the secret to the success of Japanese business men.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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On 2011-11-08 12:55, critter wrote: Well, when studying the "Art of War" I was comparing it to Clausewitz "On War" style of thinking. If we were to draw an analogy to Clausewitz style of thinking, it is more of an attritionist mentality and style of warfare. Kinda like the game of Chess, which is more of an attritionist type game. Sun Tzu's way of thinking is more flexible and holistic and if you are to compare it to a strategy game, it could probably be the Asian strategy game of Go. My understanding is that Japanese businessmen have used the Asian strategy game of Go to help them achieve some of their success in their business.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
I believe I read somewhere that Musashi was pretty skilled at Go, but I might be making that up.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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I believe I read somewhere that Musashi was pretty skilled at Go, but I might be making that up. I wouldn't be surprised if it is true. Go is one of those strategy games where the best computers and machines in the world can't beat a mediocre human Go player. So, I think for me, if Sun Tzu is analogous to the game of Go, I would conclude that machines, computers, technology and overwhelming firepower is not what wins wars, but it is ultimately human beings that win wars. I have a degree in Computer Science and Go is one of those strategy games that is a big challenge for artificial intelligence programmers have trouble writing software that could actually beat a mediocre human Go player. I have even read that human Go players will accept handicaps and still beat some of the best software and computers in the world. On the other hand, the best human Chess players in the world have already been beaten by computers and machines. So for me, Go is a game that is more flexible, fluid and much more mentally challenging than a game of Chess.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2011-11-08 16:22, General_Magician wrote: This assumes that a comparable amount of time, expense, effort, and energy has gone into creating computer chess programs as computer go progams. Don't know whether or not that's true, but my inclination is to doubt it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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his assumes that a comparable amount of time, expense, effort, and energy has gone into creating computer chess programs as computer go progams. Don't know whether or not that's true, but my inclination is to doubt it. According to what I have read, Go is a much more challenging for artificial intelligence programmers. It is one of the last few games left that programmers have yet to write software capable of beating even mediocre Go players. The best Go players are phenomenal and most of them play at the professional level in Asian countries.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Here is a wikipedia entry regarding the challenges of artificial intel programming in regards to Go:
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wikipedia wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Go......er_at_Go Amazing how a game invented thousands of years ago can stump even the best computers and programmers in the world today.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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