This is my first attempt at trying to structure a stage show, Ill try and keep this as short as possible, I am just curious on what peoples input is on this act I'm trying to structure. 2 of my biggest concerns are setting up the theme for the act. and the build of effects.

These are the effects I want to do (in order)

Vanishing bandanna
Bill to Lemon
glass walking / sideshow act of some sort.
Dancing cane
Dove act (Candles, Silks, doves, Card manipulation after doves are produced, then vanishing bird cage to end it)
Floating rose to real rose
Sub trunk / Metamorphosis
broken and restored thread as an ending


I originally tried to fallow the Dan Harlan's triple trilogy, wanted to start with something light(vanishing B), comedy based, move into something a little more magical, with a bit of comedy (bill to lemon), then bring it down a bit to a more serious level with a sideshow act (Glass walking or something), which also allows me to go backstage and load up my doves while the other performer is out, Then come back out after the glass walking, speak a little about dreams and wishes and passion ect. to set the tone for dancing cane, then from dancing cane straight to my dove act, at the end of the dove act, speak a little more ending the segment about dreams, bring a spectator on stage, floating rose, then right into the show stopper (Sub trunk), and end with a lasting impression (T&R Thread with sappy story)

Tieing the effects together is something I'm working on, obviously I'm still in the beginning of making all of this. My real questions are, is it possible to transition from comedy to serious? without being labled "comedy" though the whole routine? I mean I do have different elemets of "seriousness" ranging throughout this layout. Any thoughts on that? and secondly, I tired to make each effect build, with a sleight drop right before the show stopper, if you think about it in terms of a graph. Does this seem about right?

I think I fallowed the triple trilogy pretty well. But maybe not, Id like to get some input.

Warm up - Bandanna
Get Acquainted - Bill to lemon with spectator
Wrap it up - glass walking (used more as a transition, and to allow me time to reset in the back)
Unique - Dancing Cane
Visual - Dove act
Dexterity - Card Manip
Relaxed - Floating rose (the rose will tie in with the sub trunk routine)
Show stopper - sub trunk
lasting impression - Broken and restored thread with sappy story.

Your manipulation acts should be placed at the beginning of your set.
This will establish you as a magician and showcase your skills.

If presented properly by showing charisma, you will have endeared yourself to your audience.

That's where the "real" magic begins.

Bill to Lemon plays a bit slower and you don't want to slow down your show right out of the gate.
Bill To Lemon should be in the middle of an act or near the end.

The Glass Walking can be melded into the Sub Trunk routine, make a combination of the two effects and you will have something semi-original.

I would actually suggest your subtrunk as the "Show Starter" and not the "Show Stopper".

I don't like how you minimize the routine by calling your storyline "Sappy". Poor choice of words.
You must believe in your patter as much as you believe in your magic. Say, "romantic" and start believing it now.

To your question regarding a serious tone included in a comedic act, of course you
want this in your show. The contrast is what gives your show some heart.

In most films, there is always a love scene included with some laughter along the way,
except if you're watching "Saving Private Ryan". Lol

It's great that you are putting yourself out there for the folks in here to critique. I'm certain that many will be right along to offer some ideas.

I would urge you to ask yourself, Who am I as a character, and would my character be doing these things on stage, if so why or why not?

The answers as to the why or why not, will then give you the basis for your storyline which ties everything together in a neat little bundle.

This is what makes the show entertaining by having created a journey for us to join in.

If you just perform your effects, it's like sex without the foreplay. You need to wine and dine your groups.

I'll check in tomorrow sometime. All the best to you Mr Castillo.
Dev/

Hey thanks alot, a lot of that makes sense and I'm sure with more experience I'd be able to understand them even more, what confuses me is all the little sayings like, "the magicical effects should always build, or the next effect to come would be more magical then the previous one... Which confuses me, you say the sub trunk should be towards the beginning, and bill to lemon should be at the end, however, in my opinion, I believe that a metamorphosis change is much more magical then a bill to lemon routine. So that causes a little confusion. Or for example, just fallowing the triple trilogy, the first three effects don't fit the sub trunk or the dove act (warm up, get acquainted, and wrap it up) so again, putting either of the two effects at the beginning still don't make sense to me. But then again this is all stuff I either read from a book or watched on a video and none if it actually comes from my own personal experience with performing on a stage. So I may have it all wrong. Or misinturpided what I have read.

If anyone else cares to shed some light on the subject, that would be much appreciated. And devious, thanks for the reply, and I still want to make it out and see you one of these nights.

-Derek

What venue are you seeking to fill?

Are you planning on four-walling your own full-evening theatrical show?

Of these routines, which is your favorite, and the most solidly rehearsed?

Have you had a good reaction to it from lay people? Do you feel comfortable and like you are being your best self when you do it?

I notice that the dancing cane is the fourth item in an act composed of something like eight effects. I would suggest making it the first or last effect. It makes sense to arrive at an event carrying a cane or to pick up a cane as you leave an event, but picking up a cane in the middle of a set seems a little incongruous.

BTW, in the Gershwin levitation from (I think) his fifth special, David Copperfield bookends the levitation with cane effects. The dancing cane is the lead-in to the levitation, and at the end of the levitation the cane reappears magically, although I would venture to say that only 5% of the viewing audience (including the magicians watching) noticed that subtlety.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk6uf36yyx4

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez

There is a local playhouse that is going to potentially let me put shows on to help fund raisers, and use their stage to practice on off nights. Pop, all this is new material to me. I don't plan to actually perform anything for a while until I practice a lot. I'm coming from close up and making a jump to stage. I picked these effects as my first batch of stage things . I'm not saying I'm completely in the dark, I know how to do most of the effects, and have had some practice doing them thoughout the 12 years in magic. I was a junior member at the castle since 13, I'm 25 now. I have just never attempted to do them in a stage show type atmosphere. The only thing that is semi-forgin to me is the dove stuff, and the sub trunk. I've recently been working with the doves and training them, along with talking to a few of my magician friends that do dove work.

So then then that, it's hard for me to answer any of the questions. I'm kinda just seeing what happens with this, and playing it by ear. But by no means am I going to just take this material and just start performing in public.

That was not my point. I assumed you would practice. I was looking first to see if your material was selected for a specific venue, and that seems to be the case. Since you have a local theater, you need not be concerned about portability and other issues. The second thing was to look for what sort of centralizing character you might have to pull everything together, and that is best found by finding your favorite routines. At this point, you may not even know if you like working with doves, and have the patience to train and work with them. Dove work is very involving on its own, and getting a decent dove act together can take a long time.

I might suggest that you put together a variety show with some other performers, and not attempt a two-hour show from scratch. Put together a solid, entertaining thirty minutes, and join forces with sideshow artists and other variety artists to create a show. Putting an hour and a half show to two hour show on the shoulders of someone who does not have a solid fifteen minute stage routine is probably not the best idea. You could be facing a very bracing and uncomfortable burden.

Anatole, the dancing cane is placed in the beginning of the 2nd section, I may walk on stage in the beginning with it, and set it aside, and walk off stage with it again, and then during the second "set" walk back on with it, and use it. haha that's the idea anyway.

I guess my reasoning behind that is, it is seen in the beginning and not used for magic, it really is just used in the beginning as, exactly what it is, a cane, which sort of makes the audience assume its not part of the act.. then during the second phase, when I do something magical with it, its more of a shock.

I like your approach and you're definitely on the right track. This looks like a 40 - 45 minute show to me, depending on the length of the dove act and card manipulations.

You need to establish yourself as a magician right off the bat. The Vanishing Bandana is not the effect for this. Per a previous post above, your best opener would be the dove act. Due to the nature of the bandana, this needs to be further down in the show after you've already established yourself. Opening with the doves would also allow you to start the show with some music.

After the doves you could get aquainted with the audience with the bill to lemon.

Stick the bandana in later, even if it doesn't exactly fit your definition of the triolgy line-up. Sometimes rules have to be broken.

I think this would be a very entertaining show - just don't dance with that cane too long. Most magicians do this much longer than necessary.

Just my 2 cents.

Jim

Hi Jimhlou, Thanks for the input. I will defiantly take that into consideration. I guess I don't need to adhere to the trilogy exactly. I guess ill be a rebel and structure it different!
I was thinking about 30-45 min myself. And as far as the cane, Im not performing it the way you my be thinking. Imagine giving a REAL dancer. and REAL cane, and having them use it as a prop to dance with.. I will be doing the same thing, but adding in magical moments during the dance where the cane seems to be dancing on its own. Oh yes. this white boy can dance! haha.

If you may, arrange my content into the order you think may be more manageable.


Thanks
-Derek

Here are my harsh comments:
I think your first two are way off base:

The Vanishing Bandana? - I would drop it. That doesn't teach the audience what to expect from the show except perhaps that it's going to be a corny half-witted, juvenile act? It doesn't say anything about who you are, It's also pretty long, isn't it? I would do something shorter, sweet, funny, sophisticated humor. It does have the nice surprise ending but... a lot of risk to get there.

Is there something else you could do before Bill to Lemon? Something without a spectator and borrowing money, but still interact with them?

Borrowing money before you have any time letting your audience get to know you can be problematic and really slow things down if they have not, by this time, found you to be someone they like. The V Banana doesn't help you there, either.

doing the V Banana trick isn't a "get to know you" routine. it's a canned routine with a CD playing.

Warmup? Is this a kid's show?

If this is your first stage show, I'd keep it to less than 30 minutes.


You might want to check out Denny Henny's notes on show structure. And I believe Whit discusses his act and the how's and why's somewhere.... I forget where.

I think that once you have performed each routine in front of people a pretty good number of times, you will have a much better sense of what the impact of each is, how the energy of it flows, where it takes the audience emotionally and applause-wise, and how it might fit into a longer program.

I suggest you experiment with each of these routines as a stand-alone presentation before you try to fit it into such a long program.

I agree about the Bandanna trick. It is for beginners and birthday party magicians. It will hurt the way people look at you.

Yeah I'm starting to understand that. I may have to structure the effect differently. saying something like "its funny how my grandma sends me these magic tricks on my birthday." and then share the effect with the audience, might play funny, and show that its not something I do, but some juvenile trick my grandma sends me. and likes to call me the next "Criss Angel". along with the $6.00 in my card

Still, I get that it shouldn't be used as an opener, but maybe somewhere else in the show, after I have established that I am not a kids magician.

I'm pretty careful about the beginning of my act..

I start my act with some dialog, a few lines, a few jokes and finally a simple trick with a surprise ending. I get some real good laughs, I tease a bit, I brag, etc.. In my opinion, it does basically let my audience know what to expect: good comedy, they're not gonna catch me, surprises, fun, and I don't take myself too seriously. it's also my own routine. definitely not something anyone has seen. No spectators used.

My next trick is a rope trick. No helpers but I do hand out rope for inspection so I'm "barely" using a spectator at this point. easing them in.

Third trick I finally get someone up with me on stage.

The rest of the act is "helper on stage" tricks until the end.
I can cut and paste in different ones depending on the audience, show length, non-helper tricks if I need to but it's usually the same stuff.

The last one is just me again.

You have more visual, classic stage stuff and I have very little experience with that. It's never been my cup of tea to do or watch.

It's very important what Frank, just shared with you Dereck.
"The Last one is just me again."

I can tell you why, but think about it first. I mention this because in your
original post, you wanted to close with broken and restored thread. This suggests
that perhaps you may have someone on stage with you during this finale'.

It's always best to finish alone on stage instead of having to excuse someone
off the stage and then go to your applause cues. It's doesn't flow as well.

"You started the show, You finish it!" Does this make sense? There are
exceptions to this of course, but not in your case as a relative neophyte to
stage work.

You haven't mentioned "Blocking" in your show. This is one of THE most important
things to any stage presentation. If you aren't familiar with stage blocking, seek
some guidance from the local actors/actresses there in the community theatre.

I would also venture to say that it seems, you are quite fond of this bandana trick.
I completely agree with Frank once again (that's twice today Frank, where's my fiver).
I think it is very corny and canned.

Once again, until you have found yourself as a performer,
you won't be able to cut away the effects that don't fit.

Do Not Perform an effect, because YOU like it!
Always consider how the audience will like it.

Sometimes, when we find out who we are onstage, we learn that we must cut away
effects that we were are fond of, but don't necessarily fit, as a part of the
story we are trying to relate on stage with our magic.

That is actually one of the toughest parts of putting the final touches to any film
or magic act, "Cutting Away".

Joanie Spina is someone with great skill in this department! Spina-Director

Editing any film is always the toughest part of the work!
The actors that wind up on the cutting room floor, don't always take it well.

Talk later Dereck,
North County Conjuror

Devious. I'm going to keep this short cus on my phone. I get what your saying, I'm not stuck on the banana trick, it's just the fact that I already brought it, so if I can work it in correctly, then why not. Secondly, the broken and restored thread I planed on performing without any spectators on stage, it will just be me. I know that fitting the pussle pieces together, and figuring out what is going to work, and how, is going to be a long journey from the point that I'm at right now with everything. But that's why I'm here asking for people's input


Thanks

I have hundreds of tricks I bought and don't use.
Sell the banana trick.

Derek, please listen to Frank, (sheesh that's three times now).

Send me your paypal address, I'll buy it off of you and then give it to my dog to chew on.
Yes, it's that lame and will only undermine any credibility, you may have established with your
"Show Stoppers".

Do you remember the part in the "Carrie" film where the mother tells Carrie, "They're going to laugh at you"?
Well they are going to laugh at you, but it won't be for the reason you want sir.

If you don't mind, I may include this analogy in a new animated clip.
All names and places changed to protect the innocent, obviously.
Dev/

Anyone wanna buy the vanishing banana? haha.. I completely understand your point. Ill give it to my cousin for his birthday lol

Aside from some editing of material choice, ordering, and the need to keep a firm finger on the time delete button, Derek has already done what so many never do. He has attempted to give a reason for each of the effects in the line-up. Far too many magicians just string together a series of tricks, possibly thinking how they tie into one another as a theme perhaps (assuming they get that far), but never bother to examine what each effect is supposed to contribute to the whole.

Derek's attempt could benefit by the three points made above, but also by a better understanding of how to structure a show so that it has the proper "build" toward the end. One good source for this information is "Magic and Showmanship" by Henning Nelms. This book has some good thoughts with nice graphics that actually show how the level of interest is brought from the beginning of the show, through the final effect.

The variety of effects in terms of what they accomplish (comedy, skill, etc.) are still necessary, as would be a good eye for avoiding redundancy of effects or articles used, but proper ordering can make the most of that variety. It just helps to know more specifically why some arrangements are better than others.

The book mentioned also has sections pertaining to blocking, and other aspects of good theater that all go to a common goal... presenting a great act.

I completely agree with Mr. Haydn and his suggestion of shooting for a variety show. Combining talents with other performers can result in a really fun show, and it certainly lifts the burden and responsibility of carrying the entire show. A full evening show is something not even pros learn to do in short order. It would be a shame to do an hour long show and find out later that you have a great 20 minute act.