The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Tips for double pushoffs? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Neil
View Profile
Elite user
484 Posts

Profile of Neil
Now my card skills are getting more advanced I'm finding the need to be able to perform a double push off more consistently. It's used in so many applications like double lifts, second deals etc etc that I really need to nail it.

But I'm not remotely consistent - sometimes it's two cards relatively together but as often as not it's just the one or three. I can bluff around the weakness but that's not the point.

It's one area that even the venerable Card College is very vague. I keep practising but it's not improving.

Can any of you help?

Thx

N
djvirtualreality
View Profile
Inner circle
MayfieldNew York
1347 Posts

Profile of djvirtualreality
Are you talking about the one handed push off DL? If so, I use this a lot and I think it is the most deceptive and most casual looking DL.
Life is an illusion, death is reality.
Neil
View Profile
Elite user
484 Posts

Profile of Neil
I'm talking about the double push over itself - yes it could be used for a DL.
saturnin
View Profile
Special user
Montreal, Canada
964 Posts

Profile of saturnin
A good learning source is Greg Wilson "Double Take" video. It teaches many different double-lifts and some very good routines.

But the best way to learn it would be to meet someone who is proficient with this sleight and have personnal tutoring (best way to learn, as it speed up the learning curve).

Ronnie Lemieux
Montreal
Canada
There is no road to happiness,

happiness is the road!
Neil
View Profile
Elite user
484 Posts

Profile of Neil
Thanks but I'm just looking for a tip or two on double pushovers - like most posts for help on sleights it's probably a complete waste of time since it's hard to describe the minutae but I might, just might be missing some small thing!
Euan
View Profile
Inner circle
1041 Posts

Profile of Euan
Here's how I do it I have calluses on my left finger tips so it may not work for you.

Hold the deck in the left hand deck slightly (note slightly) beveled to the right. Your left middle finger is pressing against the right edge of the deck so that the tip is slighly above the top of the deck.

Now if you try to push the top card to the right with your left thumb at the side of the deck you will push over two cards instead of one. Don't try and push two cards..

--Euan
ftlum
View Profile
Special user
Roseville, CA
727 Posts

Profile of ftlum
I'd recommend "Second to None" by Lovel. It goes extensively into the push off used for a 2nd deal.

The trick for me is using the left side of my thumb, rather than the full pad to do the pushing. Also, the middle finger will be able to feel the double coming off, and this helps to separate it from the rest (as mentioned by the previous post). Also, don't forget the bevel. That's important too.

-- Frank
jiggyjer
View Profile
Loyal user
213 Posts

Profile of jiggyjer
Frank is right. Simon lovel offers the best advice I ever came accross. I often use the double lift from Wilson's video mentioned previously by sauturnin, essentially it's the lift that Blaine uses a lot of the time, but the push off is not suitable for double deals of seconds etc..., I have since started doing my double lifts using the pushoff that Lovel teaches as a way of getting used to the action as practice for seconds. You can learn his push off from Simon Says as well.

J
Neil
View Profile
Elite user
484 Posts

Profile of Neil
Really!? I've just got Simon Says but clearly haven't got that far in it yet. Great book. Instantly added Fingered No.3 and No.4, Packet Wallet & Card to Mouth to my routine.
jiggyjer
View Profile
Loyal user
213 Posts

Profile of jiggyjer
It's a great read Neil, and there's lots on neat stuff with second deals. Clear your schedule though, because they will require some tough work though. I guess that's why he put them in the section titled slight of hand goodies.

J
Leon of PrimRose
View Profile
New user
mayfield, new york
69 Posts

Profile of Leon of PrimRose
I use the one handed push off double sometimes....I don't like it much because I haven't taken much time into mastering it.
Being forgotten is worse than death

There was never anything but life...life and death...Good...Evil...It all depends on how you look at life... and death. The strong, the weak. It's all just a concept.

Believe the unbe
jiggyjer
View Profile
Loyal user
213 Posts

Profile of jiggyjer
It's the type of thing where you measure your progress in milimeters and years.

J
Emily Belleranti
View Profile
Veteran user
Tucson, Arizona
349 Posts

Profile of Emily Belleranti
The two double lifts I use regularly are Dai Vernon's amd the double pushoff taught in the first chapter of Expert Card Technique (the first method in the chapter).

When I first starting learning the double pushoff I thought I would never get it. It took me a while, but I eventually did get it and I learned it so I can perform a double or triple pushoff consistently.

I would recommend that you check out this method. The book goes into detail and teaches it well, in my opinion. (Just don't expect to get it right away!)

Smile

Emily B.
"If you achieve success, you will get applause, and if you get applause, you will hear it. My advice to you concerning applause is this: Enjoy it, but never quite believe it."



-Robert Montgomery
Euan
View Profile
Inner circle
1041 Posts

Profile of Euan
Hi Emily.. The one in Expert card technique is a double lift, it's not a double pushoff.. A double pushoff doesn't require any kind of a break.

Theres a double push off taught near the end of the book which uses friction brought about by the placement of the pinkie and thumb.

--Euan
Emily Belleranti
View Profile
Veteran user
Tucson, Arizona
349 Posts

Profile of Emily Belleranti
Sorry about that. I looked through that chapter and realized that you're right. I modified that sleight for myself so that I didn't need a break. I guess I forgot it wasn't taught that way.

Thanks for the reminder.
"If you achieve success, you will get applause, and if you get applause, you will hear it. My advice to you concerning applause is this: Enjoy it, but never quite believe it."



-Robert Montgomery
Elwood
View Profile
Loyal user
275 Posts

Profile of Elwood
Why does everyone worry about stuff like this?

At the exact moment you do a double lift, pass, top change, whatever, the audience should be looking anywhere except the deck.

Rather than study the latest "revolutionary" methods of controlling cards, you should all get out of your bedrooms and start performing Magic in the real world, where spectator management and personality are far more important than second deals, pinkie counts or Tenkai palms!

Do you want to amaze lay people, or fool fellow Magicians?
Otis Day
View Profile
Regular user
Green Bay, WI
150 Posts

Profile of Otis Day
Your post above makes a LOT of assumptions. Maybe some people want to amaze lay people AND fellow magicians....or is that concept to much for you. If you don't have anytips, why are you in here posting(I am because I'm responding to your rude post...what's your excuse?)
Paul Chosse
View Profile
V.I.P.
1955 - 2010
2389 Posts

Profile of Paul Chosse
Quote:
On 2003-09-11 19:30, Elwood wrote:
Why does everyone worry about stuff like this?

At the exact moment you do a double lift, pass, top change, whatever, the audience should be looking anywhere except the deck.

Rather than study the latest "revolutionary" methods of controlling cards, you should all get out of your bedrooms and start performing Magic in the real world, where spectator management and personality are far more important than second deals, pinkie counts or Tenkai palms!

Do you want to amaze lay people, or fool fellow Magicians?




Hi there Elwood!

To answer your question, everybody worries about stuff like this because stuff like this is what magic is made of. I could quote Vernon, or Slydini, or countless other legends, but it all boils down to this: a lot of us like doing magic moves! I derive a certain personal satisfaction from doing impossible looking things with common objects.

The fact is that many of the more difficult techniques can be replaced by subtleties, and on occasion that is exactly what I do. But, there are times when a slieght, well-executed, is more deceptive than a misdirected spectator. It is hard to get the audience to look away every time you show the Ambitious cards' return to the top of the deck. And sending them in the other direction while you diagonally palm shift thier selection just defeats the purpose of the move.

By the way, these slieghts are hardly "revolutionary" methods, in fact, they are mostly classic. They are the bedrock of card conjuring.

Another good reason for mastering some of these techniques is the need to understand the masters that came before us. The history of slieght of hand, and an understanding of it, is the foundation you need to expand and improve the work that precedes you. While I agree that personality, and spectator management are important, without the ability to conjure they serve no purpose, at least not magically! Your magic needs to be flawless first. Once you can do the trick or effect without thinking about it's mechanics, then you can focus on how to make that effect entertaining.

So, I'd suggest you stop peeking in our bedrooms (how else would you know where we are?) and spend some time polishing your skills. MAybe then you'll be able to fool one or two of the magicians you seem to hold in such low regard.

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
Neil
View Profile
Elite user
484 Posts

Profile of Neil
Elwood

Whilst I agree that it is most important to get out there and perform, and that one can entertain with only a few simple sleights - I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick.

The reason I'm asking for tips on the double push-over is that it is used for a range of other sleights, not least the 2nd Deal and Double Deal - both of which are used in many effects.

Sure you can do 1000's of effect without a 2nd deal but you can't do effect that use a 2nd deal. Why be limited because you can't be bothered to learn a sleight?

Of course I have to "admit" I DO like learning new sleights at home and take an almost unhealthy pleasure in gaining mastery over a pack of cards. So sue me! Smile
HiveMind
View Profile
Veteran user
303 Posts

Profile of HiveMind
I use the Double Push-Off from Expert Card Technique.
Its not the one Emily was talking about, it is the
Push-off double lift. I mention that because this might
not be of any help otherwise.

I use the corner of my L thumb to contact the corner
of the card. When I say corner of my thumb I mean the
small area right where the fingernail ends at the tip
of the finger. Im acutally using the underside of the
thumb, which rests more on the top of the card once
the push-off is underway. When initiating the push
my thumb is pushing the edge of the 2 cards more than
the top.

The real work is how I use my pinky at the opposite
corner. With the deck held lightly deep in the palm
(the innermost corner is almost in the middle of my
palm) the right edge tends to bevel to the right. I
wrap my pinky around almost to the bottom edge of the
deck, except the tip of my pinky catches the right
side of the card at the very corner (so at the corner
but a little more on the right side) My pinky
pushes into the card toward my thumb at the opposite
corner to square it up a bit. At this point (a brief
moment right before the execution) the top few cards
are held very securely at 3 corners which makes the
cards square together.

The pinky drops out just slightly, this movement cannot
be seen, but you can feel it. The pressure on the
corner is released just as the thumb begins arcing the
corner of the card in a natural arc. Do not try to
make the arc happen, just move your thumb to the right
and it will happen naturally, but the arc ends up
being important in keeping the cards together.

More than the top 2 cards usually spread for me. But
the top two cards are together. What it looks like
is if you pushed off a card haphazardly and another
one or two started to come with it... only that top
card is really two. It looks natural but when I was
first learning the other cards comming with the
double confused me and I thought I was doing it wrong.
I wasn't (or at least It is a great subtlety to keep
it the way it turned out)

That is how I push them off... picking them up is
a different matter. I wont go into excruciating detail,
but basically I use my middle finger of the R hand
at the outter most joint to catch the corner and
rotate the card at the corner against the base of my
thumb. I don't put the card back on the deck, ever...
but that is also personal prefrence.

I hope this made sense, and I hope it helps you. Expert
Card Technique worked for me, along with some advice
from Bone on lifting the card that I hadn't heard
before. He circulated a small instructional video for
free... you might seek him out.
"Free will is an illusion." - B.F. Skinner
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Tips for double pushoffs? (3 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL