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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » What kind of sleight-of-hand skill is the most useful for cheating? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Erdnase27
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Ofcourse the advantage player who isn't completely suicidal choses his victims. I don't think that most cheaters are gonna sit down with mobsters and start a game in which they are planning to cheat.
"He must be content to rank with the common herd." - S.W. Erdnase
NFS
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You can't be too sure of who you're playing with anyway.

I heard old stories of guys finding out after the fact that the group they cheated the week before were in fact made men.

I'm not convinced knowing this at the time would have made a difference. Unless you're willing to sleep outside, the job needs to get done.
"A gambler without a system is as a ship without a compass."
Erdnase27
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On 2011-12-08 04:58, NFS wrote:
You can't be too sure of who you're playing with anyway.

I heard old stories of guys finding out after the fact that the group they cheated the week before were in fact made men.

I'm not convinced knowing this at the time would have made a difference. Unless you're willing to sleep outside, the job needs to get done.


Im not much of a full time hustler, but I do think a short background check is in order before you start playing for lets say 6000k soft game. Ofcourse you can be assured that this is rarely needed in the 5$ league.

Would be painful to hear that btw.. like * auch* hehe Smile
"He must be content to rank with the common herd." - S.W. Erdnase
Tony45
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Quote:
On 2011-12-08 04:58, NFS wrote:
You can't be too sure of who you're playing with anyway.

I heard old stories of guys finding out after the fact that the group they cheated the week before were in fact made men.

I'm not convinced knowing this at the time would have made a difference. Unless you're willing to sleep outside, the job needs to get done.


Depends on who and where. Even if you beat some of them guys on the square, you still might not get paid, lol. Remember the old movie The Cincinnati kid, the beginning where the kid beats the guy and the guy claims he cheated him ? Them guys aint above pulling that on you and if you beef, you get your head opened up.
Stay far away from social clubs, you will live longer.
jfquackenbush
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I saw some guys playing for solid money the other night in a bar. they were all overhand shuffling. there was no cut card. nobody at the table struck me as more than a mediocre player. I watched them play for a good three hours off and on. They were really pretty much begging to be ripped off. I'm sure I could have gotten away with pretty much anything if I'd sat down to play. I'm also pretty sure I could have beat them without cheating. Because the most important thing about playing cards is to learn how to play cards. The best center deal and riffle cull in the world are not gonna do you a *** bit of good if you can't play poker really well. If you want to make money playing poker, get the game down. Worry about moves after you can sit down at a soft game and not have to worry about going broke.
Mr. Quackenbush believes that there is no such thing as a good magic trick.
Tony45
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On 2011-12-08 21:24, jfquackenbush wrote:
Because the most important thing about playing cards is to learn how to play cards. The best center deal and riffle cull in the world are not gonna do you a *** bit of good if you can't play poker really well. If you want to make money playing poker, get the game down. Worry about moves after you can sit down at a soft game and not have to worry about going broke.


Exactly right !
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****! The secret is out!
"A gambler without a system is as a ship without a compass."
AMcD
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Being a good player has always been and will always be the rule #1. Be it only to know when to move, when not to look suspicious. Psychology is also very important.

If I remember well in the movie "Yonkers Joe" there is a scene where the cheat waits the last card to get the winning Ace (7 card Stud if I still remember well). It's the best way to get the light on you when cheating, lol. (BTW it's an excellent movie, watch it if you can).

I've won several local tourneys just because the guys were poor or low players, there was no need to cheat! How many players rely on luck or their supposedly Poker skills? A big percentage I'd say!

About the moves to use for cheating, it also depends how you play. Single-o, with one partner, with a team, etc. Sometimes big sleight of hands will do the stuff, sometimes very basic ones. Not to mention new technologies requiring no skills at all, but psychology only.
Erdnase27
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Ofcourse learning how to actually play poker is important Smile

If the topictitle wasnt "what SLEIGHT-OF-HAND SKILL is the most useful for cheating" I would be inclined to say: learn to actually play poker (bluefirepoker.com , Deucescracked.com , tournamentpokeredge.com etc). Well.. I talked about collusion also so its not entirely fair to not mention Learning how to play. I took that one for granted because I assumed the Topic Start already knows how to play above average poker.
"He must be content to rank with the common herd." - S.W. Erdnase
Logston
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I do play above average poker Smile
john oleson
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The cooler is the ultimate.

If you play in a regular game with friends, getting the rep of a cheat is not one of envy. Cheat at cards, cheat at life.

If a game with strangers, remember Fast Eddie Felson from the Hustler ... ouch!

One of the primary reasons Hold 'em has picked up interest = the deck leaves the hand of the dealer.

jo
Tony45
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On 2012-01-21 20:08, john oleson wrote:

If a game with strangers, remember Fast Eddie Felson from the Hustler ... ouch!



It would be interesting to know how many guys got themselves killed or hurt by thinking they were sharper than everyone else. Its like a friend of mine is fond of saying : " The can is full of guys who thought they wouldnt get caught."
LobowolfXXX
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Brazilian ju-jitsu.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Pop Haydn
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There is an old saying in sideshow, "If you've never been burned, you are not a fire-eater, yet."
Cagliostro
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On 2012-01-22 06:42, Tony45 wrote:
"The can is full of guys who thought they wouldnt get caught."

Yes, but isn't that where one gets his post graduate training. Or course, I don't recommend that approach to learning unless one has a hard head and can't learn any other way. LOL
Cagliostro
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In my opinion, there is no “best” or “worst” sleight of hand skill to know for hustling. It depends on many factors. If anything, it is generally best to use sleight of hand as little as possible.

The first and primary ability is skill at playing the game you are looking to beat. That enables one to cheat infrequently and only as necessary. There are many moves that can be used if applicable for the game being played, if one is practiced with that move and has the experience to use it at the right time. That is critical. Experience and grift sense is more important than any move.

However, if one cheats many games over time, eventually he will get caught or “nailed.” If the cheat is playing in rough and tumble games and is not very good at what he does, he can be nailed by just about anyone and will be in big trouble, especially with blue collar guys or even worse, street punks, drug dealers or thugs. Even if he is fairly good, if caught in that type environment he can be in big trouble.

If a cheat is skilled and plays in higher level games with business people, executives, doctors, lawyers and so on, his chance of getting nailed diminish considerably and if caught the consequence are less physically severe. Mostly he will be blacklisted in that game and perhaps in other games in the area. If another hustler nails him the worst he may encounter is a knowing look or maybe even team up with that hustler.

The best cheaters move infrequently if at all. They will use major moves once in a while at the right time (like a cooler), and/or be content to play a good game and use more subtle and safer methods (like location in its various forms, simple riffle shuffle controls, a light bend or light daub, etc.) where their chances of getting caught are almost zero.

Quite frankly, great manipulative skill is completely unnecessary to beat most games and to become successful at hustling. While it is good to master two or three good solid moves, do them well and be able to apply them at the right time, mastering a large repertoire of moves is a complete waste of time and effort for a hustler and does more harm than good. Of course, one has to know all the moves to protect himself, but only needs to concentrate on a few that are necessary for actual use. Some cheats go through their entire life using one or two moves, others go their whole life without mastering any moves at all.

Successful card hustling does not usually take great manipulative skill. It takes brains, timing, psychology, grift sense, etc. It may take some skill and mastery, and some hustlers are quite skillful, but a decent piano player is as skilled as or more skilled than most everyday hustlers. Further, being skilled at “gambling” moves and being successful at hustling are two different abilities, although one does not necessarily obviate the other. The people with great skill are oftentimes the demonstrators with their myriad of (mostly impractical) moves and they usually could not beat a good game even if they wanted to.

I sometimes enjoy watching skillful demonstrators show their moves on YouTube and I commend them on their ability and dedication in that regard. However, top hustlers don’t demonstrate and show their gaffs and moves on YouTube, blab about their hustling ability or appear on Facebook. (We are not talking about expose experts, gurus and so forth here. We are talking about the people that actually walk the talk, not talk the walk.) They are much too smart for that and are busy making money with their ability, not wasting their time making videos.

I have known some of the best real time card and dice men in my lifetime, and to them it would be total insanity to expose or demonstrate what they do, or even to let others not involved with them know they were "capable." To “tip” to outsiders would be considered total insanity for these gents.
Tony45
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On 2012-01-22 18:58, Cagliostro wrote:
However, top hustlers don’t demonstrate and show their gaffs and moves on YouTube, blab about their hustling ability or appear on Facebook. (We are not talking about expose experts, gurus and so forth here. We are talking about the people that actually walk the talk, not talk the walk.) They are much too smart for that and are busy making money with their ability, not wasting their time making videos.

I have known some of the best real time card and dice men in my lifetime, and to them it would be total insanity to expose or demonstrate what they do, or even to let others not involved with them know they were "capable." To “tip” to outsiders would be considered total insanity for these gents.


There it is, the truth for all to see.
AMcD
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I fully disagree, you are confusing cheats and thieves.
Cagliostro
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On 2012-01-23 10:52, AMcD wrote:
I fully disagree, you are confusing cheats and thieves.
I don't understand the response. Would you be kind enough to clarify.
stoneunhinged
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I'm confused myself, Arnold. All cheats are thieves, though not all thieves are cheats. At least in my understanding.

But what do I know, since I'm an honest guy who is neither a cheat nor a thief?
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