The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » What kind of sleight-of-hand skill is the most useful for cheating? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7 [Next]
kcg5
View Profile
Inner circle
who wants four fried chickens and a coke
1875 Posts

Profile of kcg5
Quote:
On 2012-01-21 20:08, john oleson wrote:

One of the primary reasons Hold 'em has picked up interest = the deck leaves the hand of the dealer.

jo


? huh ?
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
AMcD
View Profile
Inner circle
stacking for food!
3111 Posts

Profile of AMcD
@stone, cagliostro

I'm afraid my English is too poor for such subtleties but let's try it.

Cheating, as a general rule, is using trickery to swindle, deceive, take advantage, etc. You don't necessarily hide yourself when you cheat. Just take a look at any professional sport game, like hockey, basketball, soccer, etc. Many players cheat, pull shirts, claim they didn't walk on the lines (while they really did), claim they scored (while they didn't), etc. They cheat under your very nose, filmed by dozens of cameras. And they don't care. They steal nothing, they just try to get an (unfair) advantage on their opponents. Yet, even if they know we have slow motion, cameras, referees, they cheat or, at least, they try.

Let's take a robber now. Unless he's stupid, he conceals his moves! He doesn't want cameras around him. He does nothing if he can be spotted. And he doesn't care about taking advantages, he cares about stealing something, separate you from something that belongs to you! It's not virtual, like a goal, it's real, like your money or jewels.

Almost all robbers steal for their living. Many cheats don't. Of course, there is a difference between a crew swindling a casino for 500 grands and me stacking for 500 bucks. But in the first case, it's for their living, in my case it's merely for fun.

A student cheating at his exam steals nothing. He can brag about his methods on youtube, who cares? As long as he doesn't show his face... A robber planning to loot a bank is not gonna expose his technique on youtube!

Showing card techniques, exposing card moves has nothing to do with being a real cheat or not. It's the purpose of the moves that makes you a thief or not, what you do with that knowledge.

I hope you get my thinking.
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2363 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On 2012-01-23 16:35, AMcD wrote:
@stone, cagliostro

Showing card techniques, exposing card moves has nothing to do with being a real cheat or not. It's the purpose of the moves that makes you a thief or not, what you do with that knowledge.

I hope you get my thinking.

With respect, I do not get your thinking on this at all. It is an academic discussion not based upon the real world of hustling.

First of all, what robbers may or may not do is irrelevant and has nothing at all to do with my discussion although an argument can be made that not all robbers steal for a living. They may steal to enhance their income.

Showing card techniques and exposing card moves has NOTHING to do with being a professional cheat and good cheats don’t do it. Period. I would have to respectfully suggest that you have not been exposed to or are not conversant to the type people I am referring to.

The hustlers that I have known, and the really good ones, DO NOT DEMONSTRATE what they do - ever. What they do and how they do it may be considerably different from what you think and may exceed your knowledge base. It is hard to convey in words how completely moronic it would be for them to demonstrate what they do or how they do it, in addition to being an incredible waste of time. These type people have spent much of their life suppressing this self-defeating idiotic boasting and showing off.

People raised on DVDs, books and/or the latest spouting of a guru think differently from hustlers who have learned from other hustlers and are doing this on a continual basis in a setting where secrecy is paramount. There is so much expose nonsense out there nowadays, mostly done by people who could not make two cents in a game, that people who learned from this format don’t understand the concept of keeping a low profile, not tipping what they do, etc. To the expose crowd it is all fun and games. To the top people who use this stuff on a serious level, it is not fun and games at all.

To keep it in the simplest terms possible, if someone is part of a hustling team taking off casinos (which is dangerous and one can go to prison for doing so, what do you think would happen to him if this moron did a YouTube video of what he and his team were doing?

We are talking about two different worlds here and two different mind sets. It is not the same. On a different thread, I discussed a play about using Big Player location in a casino. The reason I discussed it is because it can’t be used that way anymore. But what if one of the team members put that play on YouTube while the team was using it? Do you think he would be smart to do so? Do you think he might have problems with the other team members if he did that? What possible reason could anyone have for doing so?

How about the Big Player Count play that requires the hustlers load up the shoe by mucking in cards. Would anyone in his right mind put that on YouTube while the team was using it? Do you think the guys doing this would like to see that on You Tube? Doing so would be beyond moronic. It is not fun and games at this level. People have been killed leaking what they are doing to the wrong people.

Bottom line is top hustlers don’t do that. It is just that simple and as close to an absolute concept as anything can be. If someone disagrees with that, or doesn’t understand that, then they have not “been there” on any meaningful level or have not “been there” at all.

Respectfully, they just don’t know.
NFS
View Profile
Regular user
187 Posts

Profile of NFS
Arnold, although the semantics were irrelevant to begin with, the common terms "casino cheat" and "casino robber" negate your statements.

I couldn't possibly agree more with Cagliostro.
"A gambler without a system is as a ship without a compass."
AMcD
View Profile
Inner circle
stacking for food!
3111 Posts

Profile of AMcD
Thus, if I understand you well, when I get the pot because I stacked the cards or dealt a second I'm not a cheat because I'm not part of a professional crew or because the methods are well known?
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2363 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On 2012-01-23 21:15, AMcD wrote:
Thus, if I understand you well, when I get the pot because I stacked the cards or dealt a second I'm not a cheat because I'm not part of a professional crew or because the methods are well known?

Im flabbergasted . If that is all you got out of my two posts above, then I respectfully suggest you don't understand what I was saying or the concepts conveyed. Quite frankly, that is your loss, not mine.
NFS
View Profile
Regular user
187 Posts

Profile of NFS
Arnold, what does this have to do with anything?
"A gambler without a system is as a ship without a compass."
AMcD
View Profile
Inner circle
stacking for food!
3111 Posts

Profile of AMcD
I resign.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19636 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I should imagine not getting caught is a pretty good skill to perfect isn't it?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
splice
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
1245 Posts

Profile of splice
Quote:
On 2012-01-23 20:57, Cagliostro wrote:
With respect, I do not get your thinking on this at all. It is an academic discussion not based upon the real world of hustling.



Why would you expect anything else? I never got the feeling that Arnold was a serious hustler.
AMcD
View Profile
Inner circle
stacking for food!
3111 Posts

Profile of AMcD
Did I ever say I was a hustler? Now, if you want to play some cards with me/us, just come with your bankroll. I bet you we'll have some fun.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15737 Posts

Profile of tommy
If ever they catch you cheating, you can try telling them, that you are not a serious hustler, but I have a feeling, they will not agree with magic Café splice. Smile



As for “Showing card techniques and exposing card moves has NOTHING to do with being a professional cheat and good cheats don’t do it. Period. I would have to respectfully suggest that you have not been exposed to or are not conversant to the type people I am referring to.

The hustlers that I have known, and the really good ones, DO NOT DEMONSTRATE what they do - ever. What they do and how they do it may be considerably different from what you think and may exceed your knowledge base. It is hard to convey in words how completely moronic it would be for them to demonstrate what they do or how they do it, in addition to being an incredible waste of time. These type people have spent much of their life suppressing this self-defeating idiotic boasting and showing off.”

May I ask how do you know they were professional cheats and good cheats if they DO NOT DEMONSTRATE what they do - ever?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2363 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On 2012-01-24 19:23, tommy wrote:

May I ask how do you know they were professional cheats and good cheats if they DO NOT DEMONSTRATE what they do - ever?

I imagine your comment is meant to be facetious or ludicrous and not asked in a serious vein. However, just to clarify further, obviously they associate with other hustlers who have proven themselves to be “capable” and exchange ideas only with those people.

The comment quoted obviously implies they don’t demonstrate to the public, on YouTube, to demonstrators, etc. If they are active hustlers, they cannot afford to let others outside of their circle of intimates know that they have any knowledge of hustling or cheating techniques or that they are proficient at same.

However I'm sure you are a real sharp guy and have figured that out for yourself already.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15737 Posts

Profile of tommy
I imagine your comments are meant to imply that you must be one of those professional cheats and good cheats. Who are quite as rare as The Martians in the real world but often turn up here at the Magic Café for some strange reason. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2363 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On 2012-01-24 21:03, tommy wrote:
I imagine your comments are meant to imply that you must be one of those professional cheats and good cheats. Who are quite as rare as The Martians in the real world but often turn up here at the Magic Café for some strange reason. Smile

I’m not implying anything. It is up to the reader to come to his own conclusions based upon what I write.

The perceptive reader will engage in productive conversation, the dunce will not.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15737 Posts

Profile of tommy
It seems to me you have put yourself in a bit of a dilemma there;

If you said anything constructive here, then wouldn't the best real time card and dice men you have known in your lifetime consider you to be totally insane?

:)
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2363 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
If you will note, I write about things that happened in the past and can no longer be used and not about the current methods being employed today. The philosophy remains the same, mention no names nor do I expose current methods. I have nothing to defend or prove to anyone.

As I said, the perceptive reader will engage in constructive conversation, the dunce will not but instead attempt to show his “cleverness” even though he has never been there and possesses only theoretical knowledge.

Unfortunately I cannot help you with your quest for Martians. You might want to consult with a qualified professional for help in that regard.

Do you have anything worthwhile to say or is this the level of discussion you are limited to?
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15737 Posts

Profile of tommy
"If you will note, I write about things that happened in the past and can no longer be used and not about the current methods being employed today. The philosophy remains the same, mention no names nor do I expose current methods. I have nothing to defend or prove to anyone."

The problem with that is that it results in anything you say being of no use at all to anyone here.

Self-styled "ex-professionals" have regaled the public with astounding disclosures of their former wiles and wickedness, and have proven a wonderful knowledge of the subject by exhuming some antiquated moss-covered ruses as well known as nursery rhymes, and even these extraordinary revelations are calmly dismissed with the assertion that this or that artifice is employed; in nowise attempting to explain the process or give the detail of the action mentioned. If terrific denunciation of erstwhile associates, and a diatribe on the awful consequences of gambling are a criterion of ability, these purified prodigals must have been very dangerous companions at the card table.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
jfquackenbush
View Profile
Special user
Out here on the desert
621 Posts

Profile of jfquackenbush
Quote:
On 2012-01-25 13:07, tommy wrote:
Self-styled "ex-professionals" have regaled the public with astounding disclosures of their former wiles and wickedness, and have proven a wonderful knowledge of the subject by exhuming some antiquated moss-covered ruses as well known as nursery rhymes, and even these extraordinary revelations are calmly dismissed with the assertion that this or that artifice is employed; in nowise attempting to explain the process or give the detail of the action mentioned. If terrific denunciation of erstwhile associates, and a diatribe on the awful consequences of gambling are a criterion of ability, these purified prodigals must have been very dangerous companions at the card table.

Ha!
Mr. Quackenbush believes that there is no such thing as a good magic trick.
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2363 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On 2012-01-25 13:07, tommy wrote:
"If you will note, I write about things that happened in the past and can no longer be used and not about the current methods being
The problem with that is that it results in anything you say being of no use at all to anyone here.

Only for those who are perceptive enough to recognize the benefits of what I write about. However, I will admit that for fools, half-smarts or those with an agenda to prove how clever they are, it will be of no benefit.

However, there are some perceptive people on this board who do benefit and my posts are written primarily for them.

I note that you quote Erdnase in you post above, even though for professional hustlers Erdnase went out with high button shoes 90 or so years ago. Only some magicians and demonstrators use the moves in that book nowadays or quote it as gospel.

You are tipping your hole card here.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » What kind of sleight-of-hand skill is the most useful for cheating? (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL