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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » "The Workers" Pledge (17 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mtgoldstein
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All In
Mb217
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Quote:
On 2011-12-20 15:49, Steven Youell wrote:
Name calling, sniping, trolling, personal attacks, grudges, vitriol, vindictiveness and even the age old "he started it" nonsense have all ruined this valuable resource.

So since I've had a history of some of this stuff (albeit a long time ago), I've decided to ask people to take a pledge promising to not engage is this nonsense. If you want to make the pledge, then simply reply and say "I'm In!" Here is the pledge:

1) I will not engage in arguments over credits in this section. I will instead, address the issues in other sections that are designed for these discussions.

2) I will not call names or make personal attacks.

3) I will only make constructive criticism. In other words, any criticism I offer will be designed to help make someone's magic better. I will always try to offer a solution if I can.

4) If someone treats me badly or irritates me, I will take the high road and leave them alone. Neither will I post comments that are designed to antagonize them.

5) I will not post in thread that have degraded into arguments or flame wars. I will let the thread die and go into the obscurity where it belongs. I will also totally ignore the participants in those childish arguments.

6) I will think for at least ten minutes before I hit the "submit" button in order to make sure I've followed this pledge. I will also take this time to make sure I have not misunderstood someone's post and to make sure my post can not be interpreted as breaking this pledge.

Now I know that even if the majority of us follow these points it won't end this nonsense. But it sure would reduce it.

It'll be interesting to see how many of those involved in the more recent schoolyard brawls agree to follow the pledge. I predict none of them will since it's obviously "winning" is more important to them than magic, other people and yes, even their own reputations.

Let's see what happens.

SEY


After this recent Presidential election, if you could only get the Republicans and Dems to buy in to this, that would be some real good magic for the country. Smile
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
slowdini
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Maybe we should have a 'boxing ring' forum where when an argument errupts, the chiuauas can bannish themselves to the ring and brash it out without screwing up the main thread.
billmarq
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Quote:
On 2012-12-28 09:30, slowdini wrote:
Maybe we should have a 'boxing ring' forum where when an argument errupts, the chiuauas can bannish themselves to the ring and brash it out without screwing up the main thread.


We actually tried this idea on non-magic message board where I am an administrator. We called it "One on One." It didn't work. The forum turned into a slush box for any off topic discussions and for a long while was the most popular forum although it rarely had anything to do with the board's purpose. The arguing and name calling got so bad we had to limit access to the forum. People are strange.
Honi soit quit mal y pense.
slowdini
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That's interesting Bill. Initially I was thinking in terms of it being a forum to be ignored by those not interested in bikering. Anywhoo.. Not to change the subject but I just received a nifty set of Walton books that need some braking in so have a wonderful day ya'll.
Zack_Johnston
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I'm in. Smile
Ricardo Delgado
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I'm in Smile
Muddy Dench
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Yawn. The OP violated this within days of posting it.

I find it strange that someone has to post rules to govern others' behavior when they can't govern their own. Decent people act decently. They don't need rules imposed upon them. Much more important than these "I will ... I will not ... silly statements, is making good on commitments after one has taken others' money. Still haven't seen Keys to the Kingdom, have you?
MRSharpe
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I'm in.
Custom Props Designer and Fabricator as well as Performer from Indiana, USA
magicwatcher2005
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Quote:
On Apr 13, 2014, Muddy Dench wrote:
Yawn. The OP violated this within days of posting it.

I find it strange that someone has to post rules to govern others' behavior when they can't govern their own. Decent people act decently. They don't need rules imposed upon them. Much more important than these "I will ... I will not ... silly statements, is making good on commitments after one has taken others' money. Still haven't seen Keys to the Kingdom, have you?


+1

OP has a long history of being one of the very worst offenders.
billmarq
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Mr. Youell has a bona fide, proven, mental disorder. He did some inappropriate things because of it. This may not make one feel better about him or the loss of money for an undelivered product, but perhaps he is entitled to a bit of sympathy. I truly hope he makes good on his commitments.
Honi soit quit mal y pense.
magicwatcher2005
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Quote:
On Apr 14, 2014, billmarq wrote:
Mr. Youell has a bona fide, proven, mental disorder. He did some inappropriate things because of it. This may not make one feel better about him or the loss of money for an undelivered product, but perhaps he is entitled to a bit of sympathy.


I don't agree... with the sympathy part. His moods would appear to controllable with medication (or some other method), but he has periodically gone off the deep end SO many times he's definitely dried up all the sympathy most people can muster.

I read him claim earlier in this thread that he knows of six well-known pros who won't come on the Café because of the bickering that he seems to think he can separate himself from. Maybe... Maybe not. But I know several dedicated magic enthusiasts who no longer post here solely because they've fallen under one or more of HIS personal attacks. Not the "bickering" as a whole, but simply the relentless craziness that is Steve Youell.

.
PeterSteele111
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Im in
R.E. Byrnes
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This seems more like a disingenuous gambit to leave the OP as the only one using these tactics.
Muddy Dench
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Quote:
On Apr 15, 2014, R.E. Byrnes wrote:
This seems more like a disingenuous gambit to leave the OP as the only one using these tactics.


Yes, would have to agree.
inigmntoya
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Quote:
On Apr 15, 2014, magicwatcher2005 wrote:
I don't agree... with the sympathy part. His moods would appear to controllable with medication (or some other method), but he has periodically gone off the deep end SO many times he's definitely dried up all the sympathy most people can muster.


From someone who has lived with one struggling with mental illness, THAT is the nature of the beast.

It comes, it goes, it's managed well for a time, and then not. I don't fault you for not understanding -- it's difficult to grasp until you've seen/lived it.

That said, for those that do understand, your comments are a bit like not having sympathy for someone whose cancer goes into remission a number of times but keeps coming back.
magicwatcher2005
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Quote:
On Apr 17, 2014, inigmntoya wrote:

From someone who has lived with one struggling with mental illness, THAT is the nature of the beast.

It comes, it goes, it's managed well for a time, and then not. I don't fault you for not understanding -- it's difficult to grasp until you've seen/lived it.

That said, for those that do understand, your comments are a bit like not having sympathy for someone whose cancer goes into remission a number of times but keeps coming back.


Thank you for not "faulting" me - especially since, despite your pompous assumptions, I DO understand. I understand the struggle for someone who has "loved ones" struggling with mental illness. What YOU don't understand is that for most of us Steve Youell is absolutely NOT a "loved one". So why should we be forced to suffer through HIS ups and downs? He should have been given the permanent boot YEARS ago - and I can only imagine that someone in a position of power here is either too close to him or too afraid of him to take that logical step.

.
Muddy Dench
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Quote:
On Apr 17, 2014, inigmntoya wrote:
...your comments are a bit like not having sympathy for someone whose cancer goes into remission a number of times but keeps coming back.


That's really an inept analogy and misses the point.

No one would wish mental illness on anyone, and I certainly wish him a speedy and complete recovery. We all should be sympathetic in that regard.

There are also actions that have been taken that have involved promises, money, and unmet obligations. This has occurred not just once, but several times. And, even though obligations remain unfulfilled, posting on magic forums continues unabated. You advocate sympathy for that, but that just sends the wrong message and encourages repetition of bad behavior.
inigmntoya
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Quote:
On Apr 18, 2014, Muddy Dench wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 17, 2014, inigmntoya wrote:
...your comments are a bit like not having sympathy for someone whose cancer goes into remission a number of times but keeps coming back.


That's really an inept analogy and misses the point.

No one would wish mental illness on anyone, and I certainly wish him a speedy and complete recovery. We all should be sympathetic in that regard.

There are also actions that have been taken that have involved promises, money, and unmet obligations. This has occurred not just once, but several times. And, even though obligations remain unfulfilled, posting on magic forums continues unabated. You advocate sympathy for that, but that just sends the wrong message and encourages repetition of bad behavior.


Exactly how is my analogy inept, unless you're saying that a relapse in mental illness is the patient's fault and thus not deserving compassion?

You're reading into what I said. I said nothing about excusing or encouraging any kind of behavior. I was addressing the lack of sympathy towards one dealing with mental illness, as if it was their fault and they could control it if they "really wanted to."
inigmntoya
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Quote:
On Apr 18, 2014, magicwatcher2005 wrote:
Thank you for not "faulting" me - especially since, despite your pompous assumptions, I DO understand.


There were no assumptions, pompous or otherwise. I was responding to what you wrote:

Quote:
"His moods would appear to controllable with medication (or some other method), but he has periodically gone off the deep end SO many times he's definitely dried up all the sympathy most people can muster. "


That statement says you believe his moods are under his control, or should be. From that it's a deduction, not assumption that you don't understand, or misunderstand the nature of the illness.

Quote:
I understand the struggle for someone who has "loved ones" struggling with mental illness. What YOU don't understand is that for most of us Steve Youell is absolutely NOT a "loved one".


I fail to see how "loved ones" have anything to do with this.

Quote:
So why should we be forced to suffer through HIS ups and downs?


No one said you had to.
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