The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Psychic on Five (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
Hypno
View Profile
Regular user
England
118 Posts

Profile of Hypno
Hi All
I have just finished watching Alistair Cook's special on channel Five and I understand he is to reveal all of the effects in his coming series. Whilst I did not recognise the effects as currently marketed items I can not help thinking when will all this exposure end.
I would be very interested in others opinions on this.
Dave
Drewmcadam
View Profile
Inner circle
Scotland
1238 Posts

Profile of Drewmcadam
From Friday, September 19th, there is a six part - get this, SIX-PART series entitled Secrets of the Psychics: Revealed. (For which you might as well read secrets of the psychics / mentalists / mind magicians... revealed.) Amazingly – or not, you decide – this series has been created by a group of magicians who probably should know better. But let’s face it; ruining the livelihood of the “little” guys is a good and honourable way to make a living. If you live in the UK, and you perform “mental magic” this series appears to be designed to put you out of business.

Of course, I could be wrong... the series has yet to be shown. But if it delivers what the tonight’s introduction has promised, then we might as well pack away our n***w*****s, P/S cutlery and go home. Even Ian Rowland’s excellent “light metal” is going to get busted open with this one.

Of course; perhaps, just perhaps, I’m doing Andrew O'Connor, top-rated magician (?) Alistair Cook, David Britland, Andy Nyman and Anthony Owen a disservice. Perhaps they have produced a well-balanced, entertaining, intelligent programme. (Though if Objective’s last offering is anything to go by...)

We’ll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, I’m sure a lot of budding young mentalists will be preparing to give up their new-found hobby. It almost looks like “too much competition from the young ‘uns... so let’s take the ball and go home.” And even better, let’s do it under the banner of “spreading light and truth while keeping the integrity of science.... and we get to make some money into the bargain!

I’m sure it’s NOT been done in this spirit... but it does rather look that way, doesn’t it?

We’ll all know for sure over the coming weeks.
shrink
View Profile
Inner circle
2609 Posts

Profile of shrink
Looks like you were pretty accurate Drew, this is the worst example of exposure Ive ever seen on Tv and it hasn't even exposed anything yet! However they promise to reveal everything shown earlier tonight. I am puzzled really puzzled by this show? It was filmed in the style of Derren Brown's Mind control similar music and camera work. The show itself was probably average but still entertaining. The public were totally convinced by the effects. That was enough. However someone wants double veiwing figures by revealing the secrets next week.

This will go a long way to killing the popularity mentalism is currently enjoying. It is reminisant of hypnosis in the 90s. They finally killed that off in this country to now mentalism is about to follow.

It really makes me sick. I can't beleive Nyman would be involved in this I have paid quite a lot of cash to buy his products in the past. I really hope Karma gives him what he deserves.....

I suggest anyone who wants to express their feelings e-mail him directly mail@andynyman.com
Dr_Gonzo
View Profile
New user
Brighton
22 Posts

Profile of Dr_Gonzo
I think it might be worth waiting to see what happens before jumping down anyones throats.
Lee Marelli
View Profile
Special user
Aurora, Colorado
876 Posts

Profile of Lee Marelli
Since I do not think that we here in the U.S. are getting this series, could you please keep us posted on what happens. Looking at the names involved, it is difficult to believe that they would cut the throat of Mentalism. Like Dr. Gonzo said, I guess we will just have to wait and see.
"Mentalism is a state of mind." Marelli
mystic1
View Profile
Veteran user
342 Posts

Profile of mystic1
Noone in magic or mentalism with any sense whatsoever should pay one dime toward the purchase of products (or lecture fees) to the exposers named above (or any exposers, for that matter).

Let the exposers know it. And make clear to the world at large that you have contempt for exposers and won't buy the products of any exposers, etc.

Perhaps even tell your magic retailer or contact the distributiors of products by exposers that you won't buy anything from anyone who consorts with exposers.

It is up to us to put an end to exposure.
shrink
View Profile
Inner circle
2609 Posts

Profile of shrink
Unfortunately the end of exposure will come when there is no profit in exposing, which will mean there is no interest left in mentalism.
Scott Xavier
View Profile
Inner circle
3672 Posts

Profile of Scott Xavier
Great just when I was going to strike it big! In the words of Robin: DRATS, batman!
teejay
View Profile
Inner circle
Liverpool, UK
1832 Posts

Profile of teejay
Hi Hypno, Shrink and Drew
I repeat every word you say in capitals BUT what you
fail to mention is the piece in
Daily Mail (Saturday, 13th September)
Weekend (Magazine, page 69, Pick of the day, next Friday's TV)
"Now with the aid of.....and psychological illusionist DERREN BROWN, he shows how he did it."
PLUS
(Lee and Gonzo) In 31 words and 2 sentences it (the newspaper article) has already tipped the works on the PK under a glass case
AND the compass needle AND a subtlety for it
PLUS
This single paragraph article crosses 2 columns and immediately below it is an outlined piece in pink
for a show called You Can Do Magic where ".....you can learn a few impressive tricks..."
PLEASE if some UK, or US member can put this, or a link, up on the forum PLEASE do so.
(I would but I can't but I will try)
US readers
(This is arguable but I don't want to, so don't bother)
The Saturday issue of the Daily Mail is one of the most popular UK newspapers.
DB is the best known and only well known figure on the UK ? scene.
He is immensely popular and his name will treble the viewing figures
Smile Smile Smile
shrink
View Profile
Inner circle
2609 Posts

Profile of shrink
Well sellout..take the cash and run seems to be the strategy. Derren has made his cash now hes going to make a last wad by exposing and stopping anyone following his tracks.

Nice one Derren you are a better pickpocket than I thought.

I guess he realises that exposure is a trend that can't be stopped so he may as well gain from it before he also becomes obsolete. I did predict a while back that the mentalism would last a couple of years in this country I am even more sure of that now. We are seeing thext phase of typical british attitude. Build it up then knock it down.
MagicSquare
View Profile
New user
Scotland, UK
60 Posts

Profile of MagicSquare
I'm inclined to agree with Dr_Gonzo. Perhaps we should wait till Friday before assuming too much.

Having said that, I did see the programme, and I *was* surprised that they promised to explain it "all" in the upcoming series. Perhaps they are just over-selling it, and relying on selective memory!

For example, the series could well be a mixture of new, unexposed, "good" stuff (by the likes of Derren and co), interspersed with trivial exposures of stuff from the opening show.

For example, I don't think there would be a problem with explaining "Psychic Surgery" --- something which seems to me to be exclusively the domain of fraud (and not magic or entertainment).

[I'm not sure if that remark will ruffle feathers, sorry in advance if it does].

The same goes for trivial seance stuff (which has been exposed on TV already).


But, yes, some of the effects *were* traditional mentalism fare which, I feel, should be labelled as such (i.e. not "psychic") --- but not actually exposed.

Of course, I am now indulging in exactly the sort of speculation which I started off saying we should leave until Friday! And I'm rambling... Smile


Leaving that aside, what did people actually think of the content? Personally, I quite liked the Zener card transmission between "secure" rooms.
leondo
View Profile
Special user
Las Vegas
759 Posts

Profile of leondo
I know you didn't mean any harm but I must say that....

It's only trivial if it's in somebody else's
show.

If you get my drift. There is no trivial exposure to the worker.
Ted (Leondo)

Quote:
For example, the series could well be a mixture of new, unexposed, "good" stuff (by the likes of Derren and co), interspersed with trivial exposures of stuff from the opening show.
teejay
View Profile
Inner circle
Liverpool, UK
1832 Posts

Profile of teejay
The newspaper bit exposed in 31 words (see my post above) a methodology for a whole branch of mentalism
What they will do in 6 x 1 hour shows is anybody's guess. They covered a lot of effects in this packed preface Smile
mike stevenson
View Profile
Loyal user
276 Posts

Profile of mike stevenson
People at a magic meeting which I attend are going to put up the secrets to every one of Mr Nyman's effects (including future effects) and lecture notes material, as well as explanations to the effects from Mr Owen's Some Tricks booklet on a website, providing the methods are exposed. I don't agree with what Mr Owen and Mr Nyman are doing, neither do I agree with what the people at the meeting will do. I hope, for everyone's sake, that Mr Nyman and Mr Owen have something up their sleeves.
MagicSquare
View Profile
New user
Scotland, UK
60 Posts

Profile of MagicSquare
Hi teejay,

I can't comment on the newspaper article, because I haven't seen it, but I do take your point.

For what it's worth, according to my TV listings guide, the episodes are only 30 mins long, though --- if that helps any! Smile (Just a joke, no offence.)


More broadly, does anyone think there is a case for exposing methods when they are used *fraudulently*? I'm thinking about things like the aforementioned Psychic Surgery, seances, and other things such as cold-reading.

I'm interested in the ethics of these matters, and in others' views on them.

To my mind, explaining Psychic Surgery is a legitimate attack on a cruel and appalling confidence trick. It is protecting people from swindlers.

Similarly, James Randi is happy to expose cold-reading because it is primarily (though, not exclusively) used by those claiming genuine psychic abilities. However, I feel confident that he wouldn't ever expose conventional "magical" effects to a general audience.

I appreciate that there are many subtleties here e.g. does exposing psychics actually do any good, and what about those methods which can also be employed for "honest" magical purposes...

What do you folks think?

leondo,

Sure, I "get your drift". Smile

I guess I'm just thinking-out-loud about how these (apparently "respectable") magicians can live up to their "we will show you how it's done" promise *without* going too far on the exposure front.

But, I'm only speculating of course. We'll know soon enough....
shrink
View Profile
Inner circle
2609 Posts

Profile of shrink
Exposing psychics doesn't change beleif systems. What it does do is reduce the ability of entertainers to surround their act with mystery.

Exposure with more exposure really isn't a good idea, but some kind of pressure on dealers not to stock their products would be more in line. And pressure not to book their lectures.

I am waiting to see how they could redeem themselves on friday, but to be honest I think the worst is still to come. This is a six part series!
Hypno
View Profile
Regular user
England
118 Posts

Profile of Hypno
Hi All
Thanks for everybodys comments I am sure this debate will rage on for some time yet BUT PLEASE DO NOT try to punish exposers by exposing their work as this clearly is very unfair on the people who have bought these peoples products and I am sure they allready feel cheated enough.
I look forwards to the rest of your comments.
Dave.
MagicSquare
View Profile
New user
Scotland, UK
60 Posts

Profile of MagicSquare
Shrink,

I have very mixed views on these subjects...

I wouldn't want to advocate anything which harmed honest working magicians, but I *do* feel that exposure of fraud is legitimate and "for the good".

I really don't like the idea of people having false beliefs about how the world works --- especially about such important matters such as life after death --- and I would never want to encourage or reinforce such views... or exploit them for my personal gain.

My feeling about magic is that, in addition to the intrinsic entertainment value, it should actually *encourage* critical thinking --- and not simply lull people into a state of thoughtless credulity.

Controversial?
shrink
View Profile
Inner circle
2609 Posts

Profile of shrink
Magic is not nessesarily mentalism. I think frauds should be exposed to. Rather frauds that make money from the public for talking to the dead or scams of that nature. But very very few people will change their beliefs. If they beleive they will just go to the next charliton or shut eye and fufil their needs there.

Exposing mentalism hurts mentalism not magic. There is a distinction between the two.

Beliefs are real no matter what they are about skeptic/beleivers. The actual beliefs are equaly real. You can find enough refereces to support both depending on what beliefs you hold. Exposing on TV will not make any difference.
MagicSquare
View Profile
New user
Scotland, UK
60 Posts

Profile of MagicSquare
I agree that some false beliefs are remarkably resistant to contrary evidence (especially when the original belief serves a strong psychological function). This seems to be a sad fact.

Nevertheless, I think that critical thinking and education about these matters *does* help in some cases --- including my own!

Early exposure to magic effects (honestly labelled as such) led me to doubt the reality of mind-reading, telekinesis and the instantaneous materialisation of coins! Smile This is something for which I am very grateful.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Psychic on Five (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2022 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL