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Powermagic
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Why does the auction site charge BUYERS 20% permium? The Seller/estate should take the hit...

BTW I was not familar with the Vernon cups and still not sure why they are so prized at the price. What are the made from? Solid sterling? Or is the price because "he" used them. I did not see the engraving as high quality. Very muddy and uneven. Even by hand, and expert engraver could keep elements more balanced.
Now maybe I would let that slide if Vernon did the engraving as well.
Mobius303
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There are a number of reasons why the cups are so prized.
The first being that they are Solid Silver.
They were used by Vernon up until his death from the 50's.
This particular set that was sold was one of only two sets ever made.
They were both used by Vernon. Persi had found the last set and traded Vernon for the newer looking set.

The engravings were done in Iraq (Persia) and at the time were not allowed to be taken out of the country. They were smugled in an atache case by an ambassodor ( or one of his staff) and that makes them extremly rare and though there are two sets of three cups...pretty unique.

They have seen a lot of the world in their time with Dai...they went to Japan, England, Austalia...who know where else. They were used in performance for the Queen of England and the Prince Charles.

That makes them amazing cups to own and well worth it to the man who knows the history.
However, as Vernon used to say ...they are just props...the magic is in you. The cups will not help you perform better, quicker or with more confidence because they are just cups. Knowing the history will make you happy to know where they are from, at least they would make me happy to have.
They are after all is said and done ...just cups that do a trick...it is the provenance that makes them special.
Anything in the auction would be cool to own. In a way I am glad that the cups were not in the auction. They went to someone who will appreciate them for what they are.
Mobius
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2012-01-15 10:47, Powermagic wrote:
Why does the auction site charge BUYERS 20% permium? The Seller/estate should take the hit...


I don't know whether or not the auction house also takes a percentage from the seller. Some auction houses do both. I've participated in auctions at Bloomsbury, Swann, Potter and Potter, and some others. ALL of them take a percentage from the seller.
"The Swatter"

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Tom G
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It's like anything. Why do some spend thousands on a Picasso? Me, I'm with Doug, I'd rather
have Vernon's cups. (Although I couldn't even come close to what he offered.)
Powermagic
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Ahh that does get into the entire discussion of hoarding and why you want to own something you will not use and spend a down payment of a house for. Bragging rights? Why we collect things is mystery. I have collected stuff but do sell it if the price is right. No need to keep a book after you read it.

I guess Vernon would have laughed at the idea his cups are worth over 25K to someone. Sounds like he would sell him.

A rep from the on line site states
"The seller pays a fee and the buyer pays a fee - we are only the middlemen, and make a commission on the items which are sold on consignment. This is standard operating procedure for all auction houses.

Thanks again,

Gabe
"

Gee what do they make 40%? not standard operating procedure as I know it. 20-25% on one side is what I have heard of but charging both seller and buyer?
And they have some items not dated correctly. One they had in the 30s but there is no way to knw since the item was made up to the 60s
So how can you say circa 1930's when it is more than likely 25 older than that.

When brought to their attention they state "There's no way to know the date of manufacture for sure, as you are correct - the item was made for years. " Yet they mislead those who do not know by not changing the date or adding the range.

Tisk Tisk....
Magic Researcher
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It is becoming fashionable to charge buyer/seller premiums at many auctions not just the "classier". No one is forcing people to buy or sell through these auction houses. The auction people need to earn a living too. They are not running a charity. Buy, sell or avoid. It is your choice.
MR
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Pete Biro
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Any brick/mortar magic shop has to make 40%, so why not an auction house? They have staff, supplies, rent, and many other expenses.
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nooner
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20% doesn't seem unreasonable for operational costs as long as you remember to factor it into your budget before bidding.
ekins
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Maybe Vernon's cups aren't for sale but his set of linking rings are which would also be a cool thing to own. According to the description they're well used.

-Brian
Richard Evans
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I think 20% is pretty much standard as a buyers premium these days.

Collecting is a strange business and almost defies explanation. Vernon's cups may seem exceptionally expensive (if ever sold!), but this still pales in comparison to some items. How about the large sheets of paper that regularly fetch into the tens of thousands (Thurston poster, anyone?) or Houdiniania.
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three. Elayne Boosler
Dave V
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No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Powermagic
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The difference is that an acution house does not have to purchase anything, Their costs are only in marketing. So yes I beileve if they are getting 20 on both sides, they MORE than making a living. And if I found out the seller is paying a smaller commission I surely would avoid using that site unless it was something I really wanted.
Andrew Zuber
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Quote:
On 2012-01-16 11:53, Powermagic wrote:
No need to keep a book after you read it.

Are you saying you've memorized every magic book you've ever read?
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
magicians
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Quote:
On 2012-01-16 17:59, Dave V wrote:
http://mikebrandlyauctioneer.wordpress.c......rs-paid/

That article is not indicative of most auctions. My local auctioneer gets $125 a night, flat rate. Some get 10%. In the case of a unique magic auction, they can be conducted as friends and not charge anything as local clubs do.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
nooner
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I don't understand why there is criticism about what the auction house is charging and to whom they are charging. Just factor it into your bidding and everything works out. If you think an item is worth $1,000 to you and you know you are going to have to pay a 20% vig, then your max bid is $833. Because everyone is under the same constraints, the game is fair. It really doesn't matter the percentage that the seller or buyer is paying when making your decision to participate. In the end, what you are willing to pay for an item is what you are willing to pay.
Bill Palmer
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If you don't like the terms, don't bid. That leaves more stuff for me!

BTW, there was a set of cups in that auction that did belong to Dai Vernon at one time. I got them.

I also got the Jennings Chop Cup.

There was a set of "Porper" cups that were actually Harry Stanley cups.

I won't tell you what all I got, but they should be up on the site in a few weeks.

I should also add that the house does more than just market the items. In some cases, Potter and Potter have rented a hall at their expense, because they didn't have a place to hold the expected crowd. They photograph all the items. They publish a catalog. None of this is free. Some of the bidders pay for the catalog. If you are a frequent bidder, you may find one in your mailbox. They also, in many cases, travel to the location of the items being auctioned and bring them back to Chicago at their own expense. They also have to pay for the extra phone lines they use for the auction.

Someone has to pay for it.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
francisngkl
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I am so glad the cups go to the Museum, this gives us opportunity to view and get to know them. Thank you Bill.

Francis
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Pete Biro
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Yes, Bill... glad you were able to acquire some "collectible" cups of fame.
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Magic.J.Manuel
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Wow that was some bidding. I wonder who got his rings and Lefty?
Nothing would get done at all, if man waited so long that no one could find fault with it.
Bill Palmer
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By the time they got to lot 133, I think most of them had figured out who phone bidder "P7" was.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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