I came across this while studying an original edition of T. Nelson Down’s “Modern Coin Manipulations.”

This first edition (which I purchased from Byron Walker) is copyrighted 1900, and in Chapter 3 (A Series of Absolutely New and Original Coin Vanishes and Passes, No.3, page 101) there is a description of a movement and vanish which resembles the “muscle pass.”

Unlike Arthur Buckley, T. Nelson Downs only described the “actions” of the movements to accomplish the vanish. However, Mr. Downs did not reveal the details to accomplish this effect (which is a common theme among many effects Mr. Downs describes in this book).

48 years later, Arthur Buckley writes “Principles and Deceptions” and reveals “The Muscle Pass with One Silver Dollar” on page 48 containing more details and additional clarity on the process to accomplish the “shooting” of the coin.

“Modern Coin Manipulations” was reprinted under many other titles (ie.. Tricks with Coins, Magic Coin Tricks, etc..) with fewer and fewer pages. Thus, I do not know if certain sections were removed from the later reprints. Here is part of the 2nd paragraph, Chapter 3, page 101 from "Modern Coin Manipulations"

“…pretend to pass the coin to the left, but really palm it in the right hand which then moves backward across the bosom and shoots the coin into the vest...”

T. Nelson Downs did not give his vanish or method a name (except for “No. 3”). To me, it seems Mr. Downs is describing (at a high level) the muscle pass as written by Mr. Buckley 48 years later with the exception that Mr. Buckley's application is a vanish with a re-appearance while Mr. Down's application is a vanish into the vest. I would like to hear the opinions of others who have earlier copies of Mr. Down’s book or who may know of other publications between 1900 - 1948 (or pre 1900) on similar movements.

Very interesting. I'm looking forward to what people think about this.

Sounds about right!

That could be a description of an application of the palm squeeze action.
Good find.

It says the same in the ebook version available at Lybrary.com. (Unfortunately it's an HTML version; no PDF is available).

"Shoots" could mean a few things though; not necessarily the same as how an MP is executed. Michael Ammar seems to shoot things into his topit a lot without using an MP. (Not sure how he propels them sometimes!) Interesting though!

Thank you.

Jim

Good discussion. Here are some interesting points to consider:

The general term “shoot” is used in similar context (but different applications) between Arthur Buckley’s book and Mr. Down’s book. Since we are all coin guys, how does one “shoot” a coin when the coin is "palmed" while your hand moves across your chest to get the coin to arrive inside your vest?

During the 1900’s, the most common and highest technology for a projectile was a gun. A bullet shot from a gun is….. well…..pretty fast. Mr. Downs was a master magician capable of many unreal sleight of hand movements and used the action word “shoot” as opposed to “place ” or “toss” or “throw” or “pitch” or “slide” or “pinch” to describe the movements on page 101. The point behind using the word "shoot" would be to indicate a projectile at higher than normal speed. Another point in NOT USING the other "verbs" listed above is quite simple. He did not accomplish the movement using those actions (ie..place, toss, throw, pitch, slide, or pinch). Quite interesting.

We are talking about a man who could classic palm a horrible number of coins according to the legendary pictures in the book and thus he would be more than capable to perform the MP better than most people today.

Also, the term “palm” was used in general on page 101 and like most books the word "palm" refers to the most common of palms (ie…classic or finger palm). When a writer wants the reader to execute an obscure or new palm, the referred to palm is typically given a proper name. If the starting point is a common palm such as a Classic Palm, then we normally see the general word "palm" as the general referred to name.

When I originally read Buckley's description, first thing I thought of was the MP.

Could be - I'm not saying that it isn't; just that it MIGHT not be. I mean, we are guessing to some extent, true?

Thanks!

Jim

No worries. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

Many years ago (before I read Mr. Down's book), I created a stand-up coin routine which I performed several times at the "Magic Garage" in the Bay Area. The routine began with empty hands leading to the production of 3 coins using no gaffs. After a series of manipulations and vanishes, the routine ended clean with empty hands and no sleeving clean-up. I was not wearing a vest but I was wearing a button down shirt under my suit with no Topit. Also TKO was not invented. In coming up with the clean ending, I went through a great deal of brainstorming to come up with my final method to vanish the last coin. My final method was ghostly similar to what is written in Mr. Down's book in chapter 3. My notes from my routine (as I read it today) is written almost exactly the same but with different sentence structure.

I should have read "Modern Coin Manipulations" first. It would have saved me a lot of time back then. :o)

I encourage all coin magicians to read Mr. Downs entire book. Sometimes looking at the whole book gives a different perspective as compared with reading a page or looking at a picture here and there. At least that was my experience. (by all means, I am not saying that those on this thread have not read the entire book. I am just making a general statement). Beware that the pictures have been distorted in the reprints, but the pictures in the first edition book are crystal clear.

Hi,

If you have the Arthur BUCKLEY's book, there is also a description of the m... pass.

So new is old in fact.

Bye

Yes, Buckley's book was published in 1948, but Mr. Down's "Modern Coin manipulation" was published in 1900 which is the topic of discussion. Check out the first string on this discussion above. :o)

I've been thinking about this interesting observation for a while, and I suppose some background information would be helpful for folks who are new to this book. The descriptions are obviously terse. It may not be possible to say whether Downs was talking about a muscle pass action in this instance. I'm pretty sure it doesn't show up in any of his other effects, nor does it seem to be necessary to accomplish any of his other magic. Since Downs emphasized his manipulative skill in his advertising for the general public, and since Modern Coin Manipulation itself seems to have been written more to dazzle the reader with Downs' skill than to actually teach anyone anything, I find it hard to believe that if Downs was able to do this, he would have kept it to himself. We would have seen a piece written about Mr Downs incredible ability to shoot a coin out of his palm, acquired through years of training.

Also, there are a couple of effects in that book that would have been better accomplished with a MP. See, for instance, the appearance of coins in a glass held in the performer's hand. He might have been holding out on us, but that seems directly contrary to his purpose for writing the book in the first place.

Historically speaking, "vesting" was a popular technique at that time, and performers were as proficient at "shooting" things into their vests and holding the there with their stomachs as they are at topit work today. So he may have been referring to a technique in popular use back then, that's not known today.

Still, the troubling part of the description is the fact that the coin and the hand appear to be moving in different directions. That doesn't necessitate a MP, but still, it's an attractive option. On the other hand, the description could just be sloppy, or intentionally misleading. Bottom line, I don't think we can say this is proof Downs used the MP in the early 1900's, but I'm not ready to say case closed.

My hat (and coins) are tipped to those that can write good descriptions about magic effects. That is an art in itself. My entry into magic back in the mid 70's had me (and still ) reading manuscripts, books and magazines.

Back in 03 I started looking at hidden uses of this move. Seems it was when "Shoot" was in town for the big I.B.M. convention.

History is important to this nearly normal coin guy.

Harris
staying green to grow

Thx for the response guys. Fantastic discussion.

As I stated earlier, Mr. Downs did not mention his secret method which is why we are playing the intelligent guessing game 112 years later. :o)

This also leads me to ask “who coined the term MP and was it published prior to 1948 (Principles and Deceptions)?” I do not recall if Mr. Buckley credited himself with creating the technique.

Actually, this is how I performed it years back which is similar to how it was written by Mr. Downs (excluding the mention of MP or buttons): “Pretend to pass the coin to the left, then adjust the right hand towards the right in order to get a clear shot at MP'ing the coin between the buttons of my shirt.”

The “hands moving in different directions” is necessary because the Left side of most men’s shirts overlap the right side. Thus, the right hand needs to be moving a bit towards the right (away from the left hand and slightly to the right of the shirt buttons) in order to have a clear shot at the opening between buttons. (Also, I had a method to open the shirt gap between buttons). There is more to the process, but you get the picture.

Sloppy writing in certain sections of the book or inconsistencies in attention to detail? Quite possibly. Especially when you compare "No."3 (MP?) with the other "New" techniques in that Chapter.

Hi,

Sorry to have misread the string.

No worries. :o)

Interestingly enough, I checked the first edition print of Mr. Buckley's book PAD (Principles and Deceptions) and he clearly gives himself credit for developing hold outs for his billiard ball act, but he does not credit himself for inventing the MP.

As such, you would think that there would be some other publication on the MP prior to Buckley's book in 1948.

Another piece of background is that Mr. Downs was not too happy with the magicians copying his act and crowning themselves with his name sake "King of Koins". Mr Downs utilizes quite a few pages in the beginning of the book on this matter and states this as one of the primary reasons for writing his book.

Ironically, Mr. Buckley admits to being one of these imitators so to speak and writes this in a very reflective way in PAD, 1948. Buckley must have been in his late fifties in age when his book(PAD) was published. However, Mr. Buckley was not old enough to be performing as a "King of Koins" imitator when Mr. Downs published Modern Coin Manipulations in 1900. Mr. Buckley would have been 10 years old at the time? If Mr. Buckley was going under the title King of Koins, it would had to have been post 1910. Makes you wonder if Mr. Downs heard of Mr. Buckley.

What leads you to this opinion?

Not everyone in magic went seeking published credits or have the sort of egoism issues Downs demonstrated.
As a counter example consider Angelo Lewis (professor hoffmann) and his coin shell items in More Magic.

This is a good point and it is probably true in most cases. As such I find it sad that the history and lineage is lost in time. At best, we may seek to find the earliest publications that may or may not lead us to the originators.

Mr. Buckley, wise in his later years, credited many magicians in PAD, Chapter 2, between pages 47 and 114. The remaining part of chapter 2 (page 115 through page 136) was reserved for describing his personal coin act “A Phantasy in Silver.” Within those first 68 pages in chapter 2, over 15 effects and sleights were credited to Downs, Shaw, Carlyle, Bertram, Houdin, Cardini, and others. He gave credit by simply indicated the magician’s name under the title of the effect. For example “by Allan Shaw.”

Mr. Buckley also gave himself credit for several effects as well. He used several terms to credit himself including “Buckley Method” and “My Method.”

There were other sleights credited as “Original.” Does this mean that credit is given to Buckley? That was my initial assumption. Your thoughts?

Effects/sleights given the credit of “Improved.” Improved by Buckley? That was my assumption. Your thoughts?

Most ambiguous are the effects and sleights that have no credit at all. This includes….yes….you read my mind……”The Muscle Pass with One Silver Dollar”

If we never find another publication documenting the MP prior to 1948, I would be fine with that (considering Mr. Buckley’s skill / knowledge, the books he left behind for us to study, and the lineage we have with Buckley on the MP and other techniques).

The fact that Mr. Buckley did not give any credit to “The Muscle Pass with One Silver Dollar” is the black hole that sucks me in. It’s the same black hole created by Down’s when he described his “No. 3” without instructions. :o)

Curtis, your analysis seems to me to be the most proper (not unusual).

This was a very stimulating discussion. Thank you to all who participated.

For those of you who are interested in reading the original writings related to this topic, here is the reference material:

Modern Coin Manipulations, Publication Date 1900, First edition, Chapter 3 (A Series of Absolutely New and Original Coin Vanishes and Passes), No.3, page 101

The Question: Was Mr. Downs referring to the MP?


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