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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-15 00:12, LobowolfXXX wrote: They are not perfect parallels ... but like landmark I am surprised that no one expresses any outrage whatsoever over the 58 year old married to an 18 year old (especially if the relationship started when she was 15 as has been reported elsewhere). I remember some threads in which some people expressed disgust at similar couples (e.g., the Stodden case which was a less extreme difference in ages situation) and / or were quick to label the woman involved a gold digger and / or the man a cradle robber.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Every man and every woman deserve to be considered on their own merits. I wouldn't necessarily believe everything I read about this in the press, nor would I believe everything a man's relatives might have to say about his wife. As far as living on the dole goes, if I do believe the photographs in the press, the man seems to have owned a more than adequate home, and if his widow and orphan receive Social Security benefits, doesn't that represent something that he labored for and paid into? A far cry from the other story.
As far as the age differences go, yes, this marriage was highly unusual for 21st century America, but not so unusual for times past. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Although I had been thinking of an example from the Quattrocento, one example of disparity in ages closer to our own world and time can be illustrated with the story of the only President to be married in the White House, Grover Cleveland,m who was 49 and his wife, Frances Folsom, who was 21 years old at the time. He was also the executor of her father's estate, and she was therefore considered his ward. He did seek her mother's permission to correspond with her.
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Right now I'm kinda dizzy about a 25-year-old. Do I feel guilty? No. I figure it won't go anywhere, anyway. But my point remains that, you know, it happens. Sometimes, and in some contexts, a young woman doesn't really seem so terribly young after all.
Of course, the girl I'm thinking of doesn't own a gun, as far as I know. That would make me think twice. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
One girl I went to law school with got her J.D. when she was 17, I believe (maybe 16). It would be hard for me to imagine her dating a high school student.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Of course every case is different, and of course other times, cultures, have had different standards. That's really not my point; not even the apparently strange background to this particular story. I'd frankly rather not know the details. What I am objecting to is how quickly there was the cry of statutory rape concerning a relationship between a 21 year old and a 17 year old, and not here. And I think it's because the first case fit some people's stereotypes, and the second did not. The point is we don't know any of these people's full stories and I for one don't feel in a position to judge them.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
It must be pretty easy to get away with murder if all you have to do is invite them around, shoot them and say that they broke in. Quite a happy ending for a murderer that would be wouldn't it?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Any evidence to back that up?
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
I don't recall a discussion of statutory rape, landmark, I guessed I missed that one. It would be hard for me to think that a relationship between a 17 year old and a 21 year old would be anything other than appropriate, anywhere.
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Only partially related:
When I was 24 I dated a 19 year old. It sucked. She couldn't get into a bar, but always seemed to think I'd be able to get her in. She always wanted me to buy her crap. I realize different people mature at different rates, but after her I swore to never to date anyone under legal drinking age again.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Sounds like a very reasonable plan, critter.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
When I was 24, I got engaged to an 18 year old. It didn't suck, but neither of us was into bars.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
The bar wasn't the only issue. It's all good though. I'm not telling anyone else what to do with someone who's technically legal. I just happen to have had a bad experience that soured me on a particular age group.
My girlfriend now is a few years older than me, but she looks younger than me. It all evens out.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-15 17:07, Woland wrote: Here is the thread: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&start=0 FWIW, in the earlier story the mother was 21. For all we know, her first husband died of cancer or another illness just like Sarah McKinley's in the more recent story. Lots of assumptions were being made in the thread about how the mother with 3 kids was going to be a burden on society etc., but they actually appear to be in good shape (loving family members around to support them, etc). Whereas it was reported that Sarah McKinley had to sell a couple of her husband's guns in order to pay for his funeral, and a local radio station there is doing a fund raiser for her. Acesover suggested that the 21 year old might have been accused of statutory rape as the other party was only 17. But the age of consent is 16 in Wyoming in that sort of situation, so it was a non-issue anyway. Still, no one rushed to defend that couple.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
So the people who didn't have any problem with the first story and find the two analogous should think that least those who view them differently got one out of two right.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
I looked up that thread, balducci. The age of consent and statutory rape were hardly the main points raised by the OP or in the subsequent comments.
Individual lives are very complex, often complicated, and we shouldn't generalize. Aspects of situations that are described in the press may illustrate various features of contemporary society. Ignore for a moment whether either of the two idealized scenarios actually correspond to the particular situations described; the contrast that I saw was between a woman who had borne 3 children, each presumably by a different man, none of whom she had ever married, on the one hand, and on the other hand, a young widow with one legitimate child. The former situation is associated with many other forms of social dysfunction, whereas the latter situation appears likely to foster a much more stable future. Your mileage may vary. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
While I asked about the age of consent in the other thread, for the record, I have no problem with the ages of the people involved; I think it's a 'poor' (more emphatic words withheld) choice to criminalize voluntary sex with a 17 year old.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Now it's just getting weird.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I think it's weird that sex with a 16 year old is fine in some states, and sex with a 17 year old is a felony in others.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-15 22:42, Woland wrote: The widow's three month old child was actually born out of wedlock. They only obtained a marriage license in November of 2011. So, less of a contrast there than you thought.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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