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Tony45 Veteran user 384 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-10 20:53, Cagliostro wrote: I believe it, without a doubt. I have heard of so many insane stories from that era they still make me laugh. A guy was winning a ton at the old Mint downtown, he won on table 3. So he goes next door to the Shoe to take a shot and the PB gets the porters and gets them to put table 3 where table 2 was and table 2 where 3 was ! This guys logic was the player would go back to 3 and continue to play but it aint 3 no more , its 2, so he will lose !! lolol. AND I WORKED FOR THE PB WHO DID THE SWITCHING YEARS LATER ! This guy would also throw chicken bones under a hot table, sprinkle salt on a hot shooter and other assorted nonsensical things, AND HE WASNT THE ONLY ONE WHO DID THIS SORT OF CRAP. But in my exerience, I have never seen anyone barred from shooting unless he was taking a year and a day and was being an ass about it. |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
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On 2012-01-08 17:33, Cagliostro wrote: |
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iamslow Inner circle Proffessional Slacker 2001 Posts |
Tomsk192 You quoted but did not comment.. I didn't get your post...
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
I think the skin colour wasn't relevant. Who knows? Perhaps it was provocative?
Would love to do a deck switch like Doc. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
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On 2012-01-15 01:02, tomsk192 wrote: It was an objective statement of fact. I wrote it the way it occurred, including all the elements and stand by what was written 100%. I offer no apologies whatsoever to what was written. Seem like this post may have been prompted to satisfy a “third parties” self-serving agenda. Regardless as to the reason behind the post, I am not going to respond any further to a post of this nature or get involved in any type of “intrigue.” |
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M for Magic Special user 673 Posts |
Man!
Now this is a classic thread!!! Much respect to all. Posted: Jan 16, 2012 10:03 am On a different slant: What do you guys have to say on control shots for Backgammon using regulation dice? |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
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On 2012-01-16 10:03, M for Magic wrote: Pretty easy to do in Backgammon and there are many sources of information. Scarne, Forte and “How to Control Fair Dice” all have explanations of shots with the cup. George's Joseph's “Cheating at Backgammon” deals exclusively with the game and shows: Dump Shot, peek, killed die, Hold Out Dump Shot, Slick Shot, tops, Juice Joint, gaffing fair cups, Butterfly Cup, dice switching, palming, Doubling Cube Hustle and much more. Amazon lists this DVD and it is good for starters. Least expensive to purchase would be “How to Control Fair Dice.” This link was given previously or you can do a search. |
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M for Magic Special user 673 Posts |
Thanks Cag.
I ordered that book right after reading your first recomendation. Cheers |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
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On 2012-01-15 14:52, Cagliostro wrote: No conspiracy here, and I'm sure there was no intention on your part, but it could be perceived in another way. (That is all I meant.) |
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alliance New user 9 Posts |
Why the dice switch won't work in a casino? I am completely new in the world of dice so I really don't understand why it wouldn't pass...
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iamslow Inner circle Proffessional Slacker 2001 Posts |
Where did it say the dice "switch" wont work in a casino?
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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Tony45 Veteran user 384 Posts |
I was reading this thread and wondering to myself : I wonder if anyone ever ripped in T,s and one went off the table and the shooter just bolted for the door !! lol
I also was wondering how many guys got nailed after making the move, we don't hear much on that. Im speaking of legit casinos. Just a thought. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Its not my game but I just read this in card player
The Argentinian duo reportedly won over $700,000 by using a dice throwing technique known as “sliding” to give them a better edge. http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/121......at-craps
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
I was looking into craps and read this thread. I had played a lot of internet poker and make very good money specializing in sngs. Then when the gov't made that too hard to play I switched to blackjack and card counting. Got very proficient (the Belliagio flat bet me---told me that the computer said my play was almost perfect). Problem with blackjack was that to make it profitable you had to bet big amounts. When you bet big amounts you get heat. Also, the amount of time it took was a big minus and so I stepped back from it.
Was interested in craps. I've seen the books by the Dominator (haven't read) about dice setting and control. This thread makes it seem like a bad idea? Any more thoughts since the last post was over a year ago? If not dice setting, any other ideas for an advantage player for casino craps? |
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Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
I am not a dice expert...But, I was a card counter for many years and I do know that card counting is legal (although frowned upon by casinos).
As you know, card counters get an edge because they know when to bet more. This is bacsue playe vs. house odds vary from hand to hand as the cards are dealt and put "out of play". With craps the odds do not change...so, I am not sure how you can get a legal edge without influencing dice control. Maybe I am wrong.....but, who knows... I'm a card guy
Long Island,
New York |
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
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On 2013-10-29 13:07, Expertmagician wrote: Expert--I had counted cards on one level or another for years. It was only recently that I decided to do it right. Got software to contstantly test me on every variation from basic strategy. My problem with it just seemed so obvious when someone was counting. If you try to camoflouge it with some odd moves, you are giving away your edge. Just a mistake or two each hour can ruin your edge. Finally, the amount of time needed was difficult. In the short run you can have long losing streaks in blackjack. Unless you play volume you can be on a losing streak for months on end. My thought with dice setting is that craps offers decent odds. Negative but not so bad relatively speaking. If one can influence the dice just enough to roll 7 one out of nine times instead of one out of say 7 then you would be positive EV. I have seen people who say this can be done, and those who say it can't. Im skeptical but have a open mind. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-10-29 13:07, Expertmagician wrote: The standard fixed bets on a craps table (referring to established legitimate casino craps table layouts) all have a negative expectation against the player. There is no way of combining negative expectation bets to get a positive result over the long run. However, it is not entirely out of the questions that some very “clever” casino operator may design a “new” layout which may have some proposition bets that “appear” to favor the house but do not. This is not a very likely occurrence but one never knows and that is why some very sharp “outside players" keep a constant vigilance on all casino games looking for new twists. When and if they find an angle, they must exploit it quickly because one never knows how long it will last –maybe briefly before the inside catches on or perhaps over a longer period of time. The other possibility is that some “whale” may offer a proposition to the casino operators’ that appears to favor the house and they cater to him in order to keep his business. A little tough to do in a place like Vegas because the hotel casinos are corporations and pretty rigid in what they offer and any variance is highly limited. However, there are many casinos all over the U.S. and throughout the world where the “clever” casino operators just might have their greed button tickled and thinking they have the edge give a concession to some high roller that ends up biting them very hard in the rump. As far as being a "card guy" -- that's okay. Depends upon one's knowledge, ability, options available and needs. However, it is a big, big world and there are many games to offer, both casinos and private and they are not all cards. Just a thought... |
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-10-29 13:56, Cagliostro wrote: Sounds like your talking about Don Johnson and his winning 15 million from Atlantic City casinos |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
@brehaut_ Not a specific reference to Don Johnson because he is just one of several different instances and people I am aware of over the years. Most of these instances do not hit the news. The casino operators (especially in smaller casinos in different areas), do not like to let it be known that they were made chumps of.
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On 2013-10-29 13:40, brehaut wrote: It can only be done by cheating. Those that say it can be done by using the "dice setting" techniques advertised on the internet and in books make their money selling their methods about how to do this. They show video examples of where it appears to work and omit the video examples where it did not. It can't be done using "dice setting" techniques sold to "suckers" on a regulation craps table. |
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magic4545 Inner circle Jimmy Fingers 1159 Posts |
So, what things can you do on a regulation craps table to win?
I am not including switching dice, because it's simply too risky and it's cheating, in my mind. Basically, not within the bounds of what I and many consider acceptable practice. But, that being said, someone else might think, 'all's fair', and proceed with it. There is simply too much evidence there, and the casino would probably take their money back that you'd won, one way or another. I don't know from personal experience, and I'd probably be really surprised by how long that it would take for the casino to catch on. Or care. But, I just don't want to do something so offensive and aggressive. My thinking goes like this. There is a tiny casino advantage when playing a basic pass line bet strategy with odds, and using the come to do this on two additional numbers. I think that it's a 1.4% casino advantage, and everything that you bet taking odds is no advantage. Dice setting is useless, in my opinion, unless you are utilizing some skill in handling and rolling, and using the discretion to come up short on the wall at opportune times. Like when you've got a full line of doubled odds stacked up on the three numbers that you're playing. I almost NEVER even get reminded to hit the back wall. But I'm coming up short of the wall by one or both of the dice once or twice in about 20 rolls. I'm not going to say that I 'control' the dice, since that would be paramount to saying that I can intend a 6 and immediately throw one. I cannot. What I can say is that I feel confident that I can eliminate a couple of the sevens, consistently. Consistently meaning that when I sevened out, it was either with 2/5 or 3/4. Maybe once in two days did I roll any 1/6. This would be due to hitting the back wall, and the diamonds doing their thing. If you can get imagine that concept, then you should be able to do the math and realize that I'm putting the miniscule casino advantage back in my favor. To mostly eliminate any two sevens alters the casino advantage considerably. The ONLY casino advantage to playing on their side, the don't, is that they eliminate the 'don't pass' element by making the boxcars a push. That is the ONLY difference between playing on their side, and playing a right betting strategy. My technique of rolling sets the dice with the sixes out and the ones facing each other. One of the fives is showing next to one of the showing fours, and the five on the other die is next to the four on the other die, as well. I do a unique backhand claw grip that backspins on release, but very gently, so as to gently touch down just before the wall, hopefully bounce off of the bottom non-diamond diagonal flat wall surface(below the diamonds) and fall back off of that ledge. Done perfectly, the dice stay on the same axis, leaving the 6's and 1's still face out. This eliminates 2 of the 7's that can shorten your roll. I also have the 3/4's and 5/2 never on the same flat plane together, so those are even more unlikely, as well. All of this attention to the details of setting only takes a few seconds, and encourages longer rolls without a seven. An imperfect roll allows a one or a six back in, but probably not both. Still, the same eliminated 7's. If I hit an unwanted series of sevens, I usually just soften my rolls. In retrospect, I've gotten into a groove before that where I started getting confident and rolling faster and more frequently, and unconsciously started throwing with too much force. Concentrating on soft, accurate tosses usually gets me back to where I want to be. When I have a lot of money on the table, occasionally I'll risk a throw so soft that it comes up short of the wall. Another kiss of death is when the dice clash against each other and throw themselves away from each other. You can feel this happen when you have a not so effective roll, and, a lot of times, you can just feel a seven coming when that happens. But, all of this takes skill, practice, thought and technique. If you're on a magic forum, look at the kind of magic that you're drawn to. If you like self working, sure fire, jazz-free magic with no chance of failure, then all of this might be offensive to you. But, if you're a magician or mentalist who likes to work your way out of a corner with creativity and finesse, then you might actually get some value out of this kind of thing. I see a lot of very angry people when I post things like this, but that seems to be the way that this area of the Café goes. If it were easy, everybody would be doing it. And if everybody were doing it, the casinos would not be as profitable as they are, and they would go to machines for rolling for you, cups, no dice setting allowed, etc. They haven't, because they don't believe that you can do what you're doing, and not enough people are hitting them for what I am. I am considerate, and tip the dealers while I'm making money. A few know what I'm doing, because when I offer the boys a $5 bet on hard eight, they usually ask if they can bet next to me on the pass line. They know where the dice are rolling. If I wasn't having at least a little bit of success with this, do you think that they would be requesting specific placement? Don't you think that they would be putting their bet on the don't? I'm not saying that I don't ever get a cold streak. You STILL have to use good gambling mentality. Don't roll when you're not feeling well, hungry, upset or just not in a positive place. Eat good meals. Take breaks to do other things that you like. Feel good about what you're doing. Don't gamble with money that you can't afford to lose. Remember, all physics and math aside, a negative attitude towards this type of thing cannot help. It's all about action. I don't mind losing a hundred bucks if I get 4 days of action. You must love playing craps, not be trying to become a millionaire. I am a winner, but, yes, I HAVE lost before. But, I use the one skill that doesn't take that much skill to lessen my losses. A skill that the casino doesn't generally have access to. It's called walking away, and winning another day. Why do people get so angry when this kind of thing is posted? What is the attachment to the hate that spews when something like this is posted. I'm not lying. I'm not exaggerating. I'm not belittling the open minded readers. I'm just offering tips and insight into a strategy that I'm comfortable with, that I've tested, and that might help other like minded readers who might want to increase their chances and enjoyment of this game. Jimmy |
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