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volto Special user 603 Posts |
I've been into magic on and off for a long time now but one aspect of magic I've never really bothered with is the "basic" manipulative card magic - by which I mean specifically b*ck p*lm, continuous b*ck and fr*nt p*lm, fan productions and associated ste*ls. This is a gap I'm now aiming to correct. My goal is to be able to convincingly pull off a quick manipulative card production routine lasting, say, 2 minutes. This is (obviously) intended to be performed standing, with an audience to the front.
What advice, beyond "practice", "practice some more" and "film yourself" would you give to someone who is experienced in magic, but is just beginning to practice these basic "showy" manipulation moves? I'm competent with billiard and wand manipulation, and I do a little bit of semi-manipulative silk magic. I have a lot of material to study, and I'm taking my lead from these books: The Amateur Magician's Handbook The Big Book of Magic, and Magic Page By Page, by Pat Page Tarbell (specifically Lesson 35) Modern Card Manipulation by C Lang Neil Card Fans Teach In, by Lewis Ganson So, are there any really great sources out there? The material I already have seems to cover everything I think I need, but I'm more than willing to go the DVD route if anyone here has a good one to recommend? |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
So you never heard of Jeff McBride and his video on manipulation magic.
Well, it is time you purchased his DVD's and see the large world of manipulation magic. Card Maniuplation: http://www.llpub.com/zenshop/index.php?m......_id=1309 Coins, Thimbles, and Billiard Balls: http://www.llpub.com/zenshop/index.php?m......_id=1958 Then there is Jeff Sheridan: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/2131 For Wands I recommend Shoot Ogawa Complete Wand Routine, and his Thimbles Shoot Ogawa Professional Thimbles with thimbles, both are DVDs: http://www.holyshoot.com/magicshop2.htm For more current moves being done with cards on stage today see this DVD: http://www.magictrickstore.com/evolution......284.html And: http://themagicwarehouse.com/DA6944/Stag......ano.html |
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Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
I agree with Bill Hegbli that the McBride videos will be useful. But in addition to the books you've already mentioned, I would add:
1) Ganson's _Expert Manipulation of Playing Cards_ http://www.dennymagic.com/products/card-......-ganson/ 2) Ganson's _Routined Manipulation Finale_, especially Section Ten--_Card Magic by Manipulation_ (which is available as a separate monograph by that chapter title if you don't want to buy the whole book) http://www.dennymagic.com/products/book/......edition/ 3) Marlo's _Card Fan Productions There was a video put out by Lou Lancaster on card manipulation, but it may be difficult to find a copy. The production values were so-so, but the content was well worth studying. ----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
You might want to look over this thread and contact me about obtaining these classic moves, not explained anywhere else.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=10&28 |
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Lavey Regular user Luxembourg 150 Posts |
Yes, buy the McBride DVDs. I learned so much with them.
Christian Lavey
Magician from Luxembourg https://lavey.lu Magicien de Luxembourg https://lavey.lu Zauberer aus Luxemburg https://lavey.lu |
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Nick W Special user 515 Posts |
For only two minutes with card manipulation, look into a really clean vanish of a card, then go into the Roy Benson move. most all of the fellas here can vanish a card, but to really do a clean crisp vanish that makes people gasp, that takes some practice. no need to piviot the card to show both sides, rather the Roy Benson move is elegant and extends that gasp...thats my quick and inexpensive solution to your question.
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-19 07:58, Nick W wrote: Page numbers, please? What are you referring to? I have the book and do not know what you are even speaking in reference to. |
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David Charvet Special user www.charvetmagic.com 501 Posts |
When I put together my card act (back in the stone-age - the 1970's) my mentor was Jean Foley, who was IBM member #6 and did a card manipulation act back in the 1920's-30's-40's that ranked with Cardini and Paul LePaul (the were all friends.)
Jean learned from Silent Mora, who believed that all "hand washing" moves should be eliminated. Always think "If I were a real magician and wanted some cards, I'd just reach into the air and they would be there." THAT is what you're striving to achieve, in my opinion. It needs to look like real magic - not "See how cleverly I can hide these cards behind my hands." Most manipulators I have seen all work too fast. It's as if they are not confident with their own abilities and attempt to use speed to make up for it. There is an old expression, "Make haste slowly" meaning PACING is the key. If you want a goal to aspire toward, look at the card portion of Norm Nielsen's act (which runs 2 minutes and 45 seconds): http://youtu.be/mVNWdp-gnwU You want to focus the attention of the audience on YOU. Notice how Norm blocks his movements so his face and reactions are always part of the action (not just standing with his arm extended - looking at his hand as the cards appear.) The audience must be engaged with the performer and the action. Your entire body language and movements all play into the performance. And yes - PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. Good luck! |
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volto Special user 603 Posts |
Thanks to all for the excellent advice. Bill, I'll order the McBride DVDs initially, and Anatole, I'll take a look at that Ganson Routined Manipulation Finale (which I already have laying around somewhere).
I have the Ogawa wand routine DVDs, which are excellent. This is the best material I've seen so far on this area of manipulation; his use of the silk is excellent. There are a couple of interesting variations with vanishes and productions that I expect would fool people who think they know what's going on. But as a whole, the routine is just brilliant; one of the most magical acts I've seen - and suprisingly simple. David, I totally agree about the speed of some manipulation acts. There are some billiard acts out there where the magic is completely lost in the speed; it just becomes a confusing mess. The act goes on too long, and although there's a lot of activity, it's so hard to follow that there's not much magic. By contrast, Norm Neilsen's card act that you link to is amazing. Unhurried and extremely magical, without over proving everything. Something to aspire to indeed - I'll keep it simple to begin with though. The appearance of plucking cards from the air is enough for me, with fans and a couple of variations to keep it interesting. Again, thanks for all your pointers everyone! |
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Nick W Special user 515 Posts |
Wmhegbli, I was not referring to a particular book. I figured if volto really was serious about learning the moves I mentioned, he would find them on his own searches.
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volto Special user 603 Posts |
Nick - thanks for that; I have no problem with terse references...! That's a great pointer and exactly the kind of thing I need - a great way of theatrically producing the card. I like the psychology of it, and it fits within the very limited range of stuff I'm already practicing. That's if the move I'm thinking of is the move you're thinking of? The move I'm thinking of has the hands shown empty by opening them like a book, closing them and then opening them the other way, closing them again and then producing the card right at the fingertips.
I like this a lot because I can see that it's a very safe way for a beginner in manipulation to do it. Hard to mess up. Thanks! |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-19 12:00, David Charvet wrote: I have tried to express these same points a number of times on the Café, but it seems to fall on deaf ears, every time. So these comments bares repeating. |
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Nick W Special user 515 Posts |
Yes Volto that's right...
I didn't want to mention any particular books or dvd's because, if you really want to find some information, you will look for it and find it yourself. the Benson move is a beauty... |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-20 10:54, Nick W wrote: That does not make any sense at all, if you don't know what you would be looking for, how would you know when you find it. It sounds like a method on the Jeff McBride DVDs, if it the Bluff something, I dislike that move a lot. |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Cardini was only briefly mentioned above. You should find a video of his performance and study it... not for the purpose of copying, but to see what such an act looks like when it is presented with purpose, along with impeccable skill. He is one of very few magicians who have ever presented card manipulations that meant anything beyond a display of skill.
But to learn the mechanics, all sources named above are excellent.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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David Charvet Special user www.charvetmagic.com 501 Posts |
Here's Cardini (a high-quality dub): http://youtu.be/sVe7chIgn0w
And don't forget Channing Pollock (his entire act): http://youtu.be/3OmjlR6oG2w Enjoy! Posted: Jan 20, 2012 1:38pm And here's Fantasio - just the card portion of his act: http://youtu.be/CdVJeGTjt3o This should be more than enough material to inspire you. |
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Nick W Special user 515 Posts |
Of course he knows what to look for, I mentioned it! how can that not make any sense!
I don't like to reference any materials because they've already been mentioned by everyone and their mother. the students job is to seek out the teacher. or in todays world, surf the interwebs. |
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Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
In response to both Nick W. and wmgegbli's comments:
-----begin quotes----- On 2012-01-19 07:58, Nick W wrote: For only two minutes with card manipulation, look into a really clean vanish of a card, then go into the Roy Benson move. most all of the fellas here can vanish a card, but to really do a clean crisp vanish that makes people gasp, that takes some practice. no need to pivot the card to show both sides, rather the Roy Benson move is elegant and extends that gasp...that's my quick and inexpensive solution to your question. And wmhegbli responded: Page numbers, please? What are you referring to? I have the book and do not know what you are even speaking in reference to. ----end quotes----- Unless I am grossly mistaken, I think the Roy Benson move in question is called "Strictly Underhanded" and is explained in text and photos on pages 226-227 of _Roy Benson by Starlight_ by Levent and Todd Karr (Miracle Factory, 2006) I remember that Jeff McBride ended his card manipulation act (or at least used to) with the "Strictly Underhanded Move." I believe the move has some subliminal value in convincing the audience that they have seen both sides of the hands and yet a card (or cards) can still be produced--although personally I kind of still prefer "The Silk Through the Fingers" move from pp 19-20 of the hardback edition of Lewis Ganson's _Expert Manipulation of Playing Cards_. The silk pull-through move also provides excellent cover that makes it possible to do the angle-tricky BP acquitment in slow motion with nary a flash from the front audience view. (The Ganson book also provides many other moves that attempt to "prove" that there is nothing in the hands, but the silk move is light years beyond the others. Significantly, many of the "proving moves" from _Expert Manipulation of Playing Cards_ were later discarded when Ganson updated his thoughts on card fan productions in _Card Magic by Manipulation._ Also, if you watch the Cardini performance from "Festival of Magic," Cardini himself uses the silk pull through as cover for the acquitment. Watch for the move 41 seconds into the clip shown at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38nbBGKbyeI) My personal feeling is that the acquitment is only slightly more angle-risky than split fan and single productions in general. In his book _Card Fan Productions_, Ed Marlo talks about what he thought was an acquitment move he thought he saw in a card manip performance by Bil Baird, but which he later realized was yet another proof of empty hands that was published long ago in the Howard Thurston _Card Tricks_ paperback. Finally, I think we as knowledgeable card manipulators forget sometimes that _we know_ what is going on in card manipulation and we see "tells" or flashes that do not register on the conscious minds of the lay audience. I say this because I have sat with other magicians who are not card manipulators watching some of the top names in magic do their card production routines, and I see flashes of the cards during simple, ordinary single card productions that for some reason my friends who are very knowledgeable in other areas of close-up card magic do NOT see. Also, before I began my education into card manipulation from Hay's _Amateur Magician's Handbook_, I think the back-and-front acquitment fooled _me_ and that I never caught a glimpse of the cards watching card manipulators on TV like Carlo Tornedo on NBC's "International Showtime." ----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez P.S. Denny Haney lists _Expert Manipulation of Playing Cards_ on his shop's webpage at http://www.dennymagic.com/products/card-......-ganson/ It is IMHO a book that should be in every card manipulator's library. The original edition was long out of print until Lewis Davenport Ltd discovered the original photos, still in pristine condition, and decided to re-publish the book in a new, larger format edition along with an expanded section of exhibition card fans with excerpts from Goodlette Dodson's _Exhibition Card Fans_ but with updated fotos of Ganson doing the Dodson flourishes.
----- Sonny Narvaez
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Anatole, thanks for the page reference, yes that is the move I really don't care for, it telegraphs a message to me, see how cleaver I am kind of tone. Did not care for it on the Jeff McBride videos and still don't care for it. Just my opinion of course for me and no one else.
I think the most important part of the Expert Manipulation of Playing Cards book is the suggested routine listings in the back of the book. This will give students an idea how to assemble a card act. |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
A lot of people will get tired of practicing and give up fast. A lot of times I make practicing more enjoying by watching television the same time. Watching a two hour movie while practicing the Split Fan, Perfect Production, Snap Production, etc. It makes learning the moves with ease.
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