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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Breaking News * Feds Arrest Website Owner (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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debaser
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Quote:
On 2012-01-24 23:48, Kozmo wrote:
No one will ever be able to stop the theft of IP at a small level. You will always be able to make a copy and give it to a friend. However, they can and will stop the massive download situation just like they did with online poker. They will just stop that information from entering this country.

I'm pretty well known in magic. Cover of magazines, lecture, conventions...performed for 25 year and have done 30,000 shows. And I know almost everyone in the industry. And I watch friends like Danny Garcia and how magicians come up and ask for a picture and an autograph and then go home and steal his work and having total disrespect for the artist and how that artist makes a living.

The government will attack this problem and it will affect other streams of information on the net.

As a side note, make sure you guys watch what reel magic is going to do in the future with this issue. Smile

kHz


So you think its reasonable and a good idea for the economy in general to cripple the internet and the ability for people to make honest money so that filesharing becomes more difficult for a bunch of people that probably would not bother to spend the money on those things anyway?
debaser
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MOM AND POP STORES

I am a huge fan of mom and pop stores and scour them in every city I go. However, we act as if amazon and netflix has put these mom and pop stores out of business ruining an american tradition, when in fact media based mom and pop stores have only really been around (in mass) since the eighties. There were no book stores or music stores in the fifties. that all belonged to big business and mail order, if anyone should be crying it should be sears who originated selling media to the masses (on trains delivering them across the country, much like amazon or a physical version of the internet.

we may not like everything about it but here we are here. and trying to stop change is a fast track to becoming antiquated and a country that once was great.
mastermindreader
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Please provide some kind of proof for your assertion that the thieves are primarily those who wouldn't have bothered to spend the money on magic/mentalism eBooks anyway. And are you actually saying that those who knowingly facilitate this sort of sharing on profit generating sites are making "honest money?"

(And BTW, where did you ever get the notion that there were no small book and music stores in the 50's? There were literally thousands of them.)
LobowolfXXX
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I'm against drunk driving, I just don't think that police officers should be allowed to administer breath tests or pull cars over. Or loiter near bars, for that matter.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
debaser
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There were not thousands of them. there were department stores and five and dimes etc... which sold music and books but not book stores (at least not outside of major cities)
nobody could have survived on book sales alone in the fifties unless you were in a major metropolitin area.

Perhaps some music stores in the late 60s but 5% tops of what there was in the early nineties.

You know I cannot provide proof that is anything more than anecdotal that the thieves would not spend the money, but what I can tell you is that the few poeple I know that download stuff have far more than they can look at and could ever afford so that alone is some indication. I meant honest money using the same services and the internet in general to make money just not distributing others work.
Can you admit that the there is much more magic sold now than ever before?
LobowolfXXX
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I agree that thieves wouldn't buy as much as they steal, but that's a poor yardstick; the point is that if theft were not a readily available option, they'd buy more than they do now.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
debaser
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MUSIC BUSINESS

this is a complex issue but the main reason that the music business is floundering is definitely their own fault. They took advantage of a great economy and squeezed it dry (I know I was one of their best customers)

They more than doubled the price of music when cds came out, offically saying it was because of the technology and when it got cheaper they would bring the prices back down. However they found in the early nineties that young people had a lot of disposable income and decided not to bring the prices down after all, that not being enough they did everything they could to repackage old material and get people to buy stuff they already had (irregardless of the artists opinions of wether that should be done) then realized that if they started the bands and made them successful instead of hiring talented bands that they could make much more money i.e. the boy bands etc.. of the late nineties. then they blamed their fall after the economy dropped in 2001 and people could not afford or got tired of buying junk. on downloading.

just like they blamed cd burners and before that blank tapes and before that they blamed records for stealing money away from live shows. some of it is true but most of it is people who have money trying to repress new ways of commerce so that they don't have to change. it has been going on since the printing press and it seems to fool everybody time after time nonetheless.
debaser
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Quote:
On 2012-01-25 02:27, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I agree that thieves wouldn't buy as much as they steal, but that's a poor yardstick; the point is that if theft were not a readily available option, they'd buy more than they do now.


I agree, and I agree that there are many reasons why things phase in and out of making money. And I also think there should be protection for the producers of content (and there is already)
and that has to change with the technology.

I just don't agree with throwing a grenade into the foxhole and blowing everything and everyone up just to make sure a few bad guys get stopped.
LobowolfXXX
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You're moving the goalposts. The question is, would people who now take advantage of technological advances to steal music with little fear of getting caught, if they were no longer able to do so, buy music? Of course they would. Again, they might not buy AS MUCH. Someone who illegally downloads 10 CDs a month might only buy 2 and go without 8, but so what?

Edit: This post was not in response to the one directly above it, but rather the one directly above THAT. I see from your more recent post that we're in agreement on some of what I think are the more salient posts, which wasn't clear to me before that post from you.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
debaser
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DVDs

blockbuster definitely killed itself by refusing to acknowledge the power of streaming content. By offically saying that it could not comprehend someone going through the trouble of
looking through online content and waiting for it to start streaming. this just 6 months before it started closing its doors

Netflix saw an oppurtunity and saw what happened to music and made a move that turned them into a giant. It was blocbusters for the taking and they handed it to netflix

Speaking of netflix, I was teaching at a university two years ago and found that very few tech able people downloaded movies, maybe 5 percent and all of them had netflix.

I asked why some of them had netflix if they new how to download stuff and they said that netflix is cheaper mothly than stuff like megaupload???? go figure.
mastermindreader
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You wrote- "There were no book stores or music stores in the fifties." That is false. Now you are saying "at least not in major cities" and "perhaps some music stores in the late 60's." (Well, I was brought up in the fifties and got my violin lessons at one of those music stores that you claim didn't exist.)

I will admit that it's highly likely that more physical magic is sold now than before. That's because there are more people into magic now than ever before. But magic book sales have gone in the opposite direction. More books and intellectual property are ripped off than ever before in the history of the art.
tommy
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I wouldn't as I have stolen more than I know what to with already.

Do you think its worth closing gate after the house has bolted?

:)
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
mastermindreader
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I hope you meant "the horse" and not "the house", because if my house bolted I'd have a lot more to worry about than an open gate. Smile
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-01-25 02:46, tommy wrote:
I wouldn't as I have stolen more than I know what to with already.

Do you think its worth closing gate after the house has bolted?

:)


It is unless the only thing you had of value was the one horse.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
debaser
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So you had violin lessons in a store that just sold records???? I didn't mean instrument stores that might have a few records in them, we were talking about cd stores and their lineage.

AS someone who worked in a magic store in the eighties I can 100percent gaurentee that there are more magic books now, probably 5 times as many as their were in the eighties.

why do you think more people are into magic now????? I sure hope it wouldnt be those kids who might have borrowed some magic dvds from another kid or donloaded some stuff???
mastermindreader
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I have come up with a unique solution however. Doctor Crow has put the hoodoo on my eBooks. Those that obtain them illegally will soon find that their masculine appendages have fallen off. That ought to take care of it.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-01-25 02:50, debaser wrote:
So you had violin lessons in a store that just sold records???? I didn't mean instrument stores that might have a few records in them, we were talking about cd stores and their lineage.

AS someone who worked in a magic store in the eighties I can 100percent gaurentee that there are more magic books now, probably 5 times as many as their were in the eighties.

why do you think more people are into magic now????? I sure hope it wouldnt be those kids who might have borrowed some magic dvds from another kid or donloaded some stuff???


You said "music stores." But I would point out that there were many record stores in the fifties as well. They often sponsored local concerts by early rock and roll stars. In fact, the oldest record store in America was opened in 1932. For a history of record stores in America you might want to check out http://www.vinylives.com/history.html

And, as someone who worked in a major magic store in the sixties and seventies, I can 100 percent guarantee that we stocked and sold more magic books than you will find in almost any brick and mortar or internet magic store today. In fact, there is a thread on this somewhere on the Café, where posters were bemoaning the dearth of books to be found in today's magic shops compared to decades ago.

If you count eBooks, then yes, there are probably a lot more books available today. The problem we are talking about here is that most eBooks are pirated and obtained for free. That wasn't a big problem before the Internet.

As to why more people are into magic today? There are more people. (And, of course, our secrets are more widely - and freely - available than ever before - again thanks to the Internet.)

We obviously were brought up and live in two very different worlds.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-01-25 02:50, debaser wrote:
why do you think more people are into magic now????? I sure hope it wouldnt be those kids who might have borrowed some magic dvds from another kid or donloaded some stuff???


You seem to have a bit of a love/hate relationship with this whole "IP theft is bad" position.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-01-25 03:10, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-01-25 02:50, debaser wrote:
why do you think more people are into magic now????? I sure hope it wouldnt be those kids who might have borrowed some magic dvds from another kid or donloaded some stuff???


You seem to have a bit of a love/hate relationship with this whole "IP theft is bad" position.


I get the impression that he really doesn't think it's a big deal. As a victim of it I have a different perspective.
debaser
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Your impression is right that I don't think its a big deal (in the sense that its ruining business's) but I think that it needs to be dealt with and will have to be dealt with continuously as it has throughout time. its just a matter of dealing with it with responsibility and accountability to the rest of commerce. and not to let those in power stay in power just because they have more money. indeed it is the mom and pops of the internet that I am most concerned with saving and not faceless corporations that eat economies until there is nothing left.
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