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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Prove your rights extend to that which you permanently give to another.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Not going there again as I don't have to prove it. It's the law, whether you approve or not.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-04 16:20, gdw wrote: Any rights of the original owner can be transferred or retained. The right to reproduce the work was not transferred, so your premise that something was "permanentlyly given" is flawed. Similarly, I could sell you my house with the provision that you never fly a pirate flag from the food. It's a bargained-for Exchange, per basic contract law. The fact that you didn't sign anything waiving your right to copy is a red herring, because copyright law sets the reservation of that right as reserved by default, and you perfectly well knew it when you bought the book.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Also, since you are challenging the basis of well established law, the burden of proof is on you, not me.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
No, I am rejecting a claim. The ones asserting the initial claim have the burden of proof.
And Lobo, the information is what is perminsntly given, so it's not flawed. You're also presuming an exclusive right to reproduce exists in the first place. And, again, appealing to the law, when the entire debate is the validity of the law, or rather the premise it is based on, is circular. No one has denied whether or not it's the law.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
The one who is challenging the validity of the law has the burden of proof as to that issue. Ask any attorney. (Oh, wait a minute, there are at least two of us attorneys here.)
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Yes, but we are not dealing with a court of law, we are discussing a premise, and it's grounding, or lack thereof, in reality.
Religion is fairly established, especially the premise of a god, but it is not my burden to prove its non existence, but rather the burden rests with those claiming its existence. In spite of this, I've laid out plenty to go against the premise of ip rights extending over information in the position of others, and all I have heard in defence of ip rights are emotional appeals, and out dated utilitarian claims which have been shown to be completely unnecessary for the promotion of creation and profit.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
No, you haven't shown or proven anything, except your own utopian based intractability.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
It's not utopian. It's simply about not institutionalising unethical practices.
And the entire justification for ip law, at least in the states, was to provide the absolute minimum protection necessary to promote creation, and allow people to make a profit. It has been shown, by others, not me, that these are completely unfounded justifications. Countless people continue to create without ip protection, magic alone is a prime example of this with effects having no protection, and there is no shortage of creativity in magic. As for profit, as shown, people can make MILLIONS without ip protection, again showing the justification is unfounded. The idea that they could possibly make MORE with government granted monopoly is a red herring. I could make more demanding money with a gun than voluntarily selling my services, that doesn't justify it.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Also, my positions on ip do not rely on a free society, simply treating the problem as an economical one, rather than a criminal one, where we are just serving the interests of the corporations.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote: . The information is given subject to restrictions, which the buyer contracts for. The house analogy is fitting; you "own" the house, subject to restrictions. You have already allowed in other posts that such restrictions are permissible if contracted for.
On 2012-02-04 17:16, gdw wrote: I'm not assuming that an EXCLUSIVE right to reproduce in the first place; I'm assuming that the buyer can agree to purchase the book while not purchasing the right to reproduce.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-04 09:33, gdw wrote: Very nice indeed. The highlight of the thread IMO.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Rights can be expressly granted by statute or by a constitution. IP rights, in the US, are specifically granted by both.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2012-02-04 19:00, gdw wrote: IP enforcement is generally handled as a civil matter when it comes to copyright infringements. But be that as it may, please provide one example of a writer making "millions" without the benefit of copyright protection. Most writers rely on royalties from the sales of their works. They cannot go on concert tours like musicians. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Mr. Cassidy, rights can be enshrined in law, and constitution, but they are not granted. Privileges are granted. Rights are not.
Lobo, if there is no exclusive right to reproduce, then said "right" cannot be sold. Yes I agreed that such stipulations, agreed upon by the parties involved, are legitimate. Of course, if someone else retains control over your property, like your house, then can it really be said to be "your" property? Do you really "own" it.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Mr. Cassidy, I didn't specify writers. Not all endeavours are worthy of making people millionaires. That being said, there are countless examples of authors making livings without ip protection.
http://redd4a3.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/......olicies/
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-04 20:09, landmark wrote: Thanks. The Seamless video is fairly old. The colour changing deck video was earlier last year during Caleb Wiles lecture tour. You may be seeing more of my magic I'm the near future.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On 2012-02-04 21:01, mastermindreader wrote:...Most writers rely on royalties from the sales of their works. They cannot go on concert tours like musicians. As it happens that's one of the ways a writer's product adds and maintains customer value. For example Charles Stross is on tour now and keeps his fans posted on events using his blog. That's a pretty good way to advertise, generate retail sales during the tour and connect with the market. I hear getting Corey Doctorow to travel is a little more elaborate.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2012-02-04 21:07, gdw wrote: If I write a book, then regardless of whether I have the *exclusive* right to reproduce, as long as I have a right to reproduce, that right can be sold. As to the question of whether or not an encumbered I terse is "ownership," that's a semantic question that doesn't really need to be resolved to address the issue. My copy of The Artful Mentalism of Bob Cassidy" says "All Rights Reserved.". It's really irrelevant whether you want to say that means I don't own it or whether I can reasonably be said to own it. The salient point is, as copyright law has the effect of defaulting to a reservation of such right to copy, I have entered into an implied-in-fact contract not to reproduce it. I knew perfectly well that was the deal when I bought it, and I bought it anyway.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2012-02-04 21:31, Jonathan Townsend wrote: You overlook one thing- the tours you speak of are, for the most part, promotional tours TO SELL BOOKS. Bands tour to make money from the shows they present because, unfortunately, they are finding it increasingly difficult to do so through record sales. And that's exactly my point- royalties from book sales are how writers generally earn their money. |
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