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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts 
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On 2012-01-24 20:07, mastermindreader wrote: You lost money? So you had it, and now it is gone?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2012-01-24 20:17, balducci wrote: What exactly did it misrepresent? Somalia's improvements happened after the government collapsed. To say telecommunications improved in spite of the lack of government is the blatant misrepresentation.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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debaser Special user Boulder 557 Posts
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Another addition to sopa in the real life
in addition to the woes of the kinkos metaphor, if you drove your friend to kinkos and made him promise that he wouldnt do anything illegal and he unknowingly photocopied a picture that he took that had a mcdonalds sign in it and he was going to use that photo in a school project. you could both go to jail. ofcourse these things would probably not happen, but the point is that they could. and lets suppose you are an honest person that is speaking out legally against the government on some situation and they now have a chance to throw you in jail because you facebooked your grandmother a quote of your favorite movie that you share together. I AM NOT an alarmist or an anarchist in fact I could care if the internet itself just went away but that would certainly put our country behind many others, (in fact megaupload caused many websites to cut off their ties to the united states but not to other countries. Perhaps china censors its own internet but we just did the same by going after people in another country without knowing exactly what we are doing. (sound familiar? |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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It would be impossible to explain to you, Glen, as the concepts of future earnings and projected revenues based on previous sales are things that you don't seem to take seriously. If I'd have been paid for every illegal copy of my works that are out there, I would have been able to retire years ago.
But this is all rather pointless, as you'll just say that no one has the right to expect payment in return for the distribution of his intellectual property. So I'm just going to let this discussion go (again!) since you obviously feel that all ideas should be free to everyone, creators be d***ed. Best- Bob |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On 2012-01-24 19:52, gdw wrote: Do your examples "clearly prove" utilitarian agruments wrong? I don't think Mr. Brooks has enough bandwidth for links to all of the stories that could show how much money has been made by a ton of people who DID have IP protection. You could post links to stories of people who smoked and didn't get cancer, too.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On 2012-01-24 20:44, gdw wrote: So if I enter into a contract to lease a building from you, and in reliance upon our contract, you don't rent to someone else, then I violate our contract, I presume your view is that you haven't "lost money," since the other would-be renter never put the money in your hands.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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debaser Special user Boulder 557 Posts
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Im sure you have lost some money bob on illegal sharing of your work and or re-selling of your work, and that is sad really, I personally own a video, book and lecture notes of yours and its all great. Your ideas are worth money and you should be rightfully paid for them.
that being said, just like hollywood is saying that it lost 500 million dollars last year, this is ridiculous. its like a resturaunt saying that they could have made a $100 if they had charged for their free mints. there is only a small percentage of people who have illegally downloaded something that would have in another circumstance paid for things. I remember in grad school people downloading anything and everything just because they could and never watching or listening to it etc.... and then getting letters from hbo that scared them into stopping. people losing money for their hard work is sad, but shutting down abilities to communicate, create and distribute legitimately our work just to prevent misuse of those methods is ridiculous. if (taking what I said as true) you still believe in sopa, then you should eliminate cars, liquor, cigarettes, high cholesterol foods, etc... as they cause much more problems than illegally watching an episode of doogie howser md |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On 2012-01-24 21:00, debaser wrote: "a small percentage" based on what? Here's something *I* remember - bricks and mortar stores where people bought CDs and DVDs in enough quantity to pay the commercial rent, utilities, wages, and other expenses. Sam Goody's...Warehouse...Licorice Pizza...FYE... Now, millions of people don't think twice about illegal filesharing, and most of those stores are gone or going. Mere coincidence? I think if we were back in a world where your choices were to buy music or movies or not have them, you'd find that yes...people WOULD pay for them.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2012-01-24 20:53, mastermindreader wrote: You seem to assume you would have sold all those copies had they not been downloaded. The concept of future earnings does not escape me, I just realise they are not something one "has" or owns. Something about counting eggs? As for compensation,to begin with, you don't have a right to be compensated in the first place, not until someone offers too. You can do all the work you want, but it means nothing unless someone wants to pay you for it. As for being payed for its distribution, Bob, you WERE compensated, and YOU were the one who distributed it. YOU put it out there. YOU were the one who made the information available in the first place. If you can blame a person who makes it available online for the copies that result, then why not apply that same logic to the person who made it available in the first place? Again, YOU are the one who chose to put that information out there, and you were payed for doing so. Why do you keep going to these fall back points rather than actually arguing your foundational point, that you have an inherent right to control information after you give it to others. That's the claim being made, the burden of proof is on those making it. I'm simply no longer accepting the claim just at face value.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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What's this about recorded performances and movies?
You want to hear music go hire some musicians. You want storytime go to your local theater and support the arts. something amiss in that argument?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2012-01-24 21:10, LobowolfXXX wrote: Lobo, those going out of business are doing so because of competition in the market. Those who adapted with the changes in technology and the market flourished. Just look at iTunes, they did exceptionally well competing with otherwise "free" alternatives. Netflix as well, or closer to home, Penguin, and their downloads. Plenty of actual artists experimenting with foregoing ip protection all together as well, Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, Gorillaz.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2012-01-24 20:58, LobowolfXXX wrote: Any thing I "lose" would be covered in the contract. The same could be said about entering into negotiations to rent a house, after months on the market. You think you have an ideal potential renter, so you you aren't looking at others, but then they back out, before anything has been signed. You could have already rented it of you went with someone else, now you have to start negotiations all over again.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2012-01-24 20:57, LobowolfXXX wrote: You can show plenty of examples of people making money robbing banks, more money than legitimate work, what's your point?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On 2012-01-24 21:26, gdw wrote: Tenet of faith? The reports I've read suggest that over 90% of music downloads are illegal, numbering in the tens of billions. Are you quite sure that might not play a small role?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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On 2012-01-24 21:10, LobowolfXXX wrote: Come on, this is the sort of faulty logic you are always attacking. Services like Netflix and Hulu etc., and poor business practices on the part of the CD / DVD stores, were very arguably the main culprits - not file sharing. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articl......,00.html "It had been clear for years that Blockbuster's model was unsustainable. Heck, Netflix was operating for six years before Blockbuster launched its own movie-by-mail service."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Small role, maybe, but you're also ignoring those who were exposed to music, movies, or shows they would otherwise never have seen or heard, and then bought things they otherwise would not have either. And, as mentioned, those who wouldn't have bought anything were they able to download them or not.
Movies are making more at the box office than ever. Online options are allowing artists to be discovered that otherwise would have never been heard from again. Though maybe I'd be willing to accept eliminating all ip infringement if it meant no Justin Beiber.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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I shouldn't have made all those mix-tapes in high school. According to one contributor, that made me "scum." I don't want to be scum
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Who suggested that? Some of it's all blurring together.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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I was paraphrasing. It was way back there and I'm not going on a treasure hunt over it. I was just playing anyway.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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debaser Special user Boulder 557 Posts
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I remember cd stores etc.. as well. I shopped in them daily and have 4,000 cds to show for it. cd stores were going out of business fast before true downloading got a hold of music. There are so many reasons why those stores went out of business but the music industry itself was the cause of its own demise (and they admit that) one of those moments was putting anti copy protection on some cds that then wouldnt play on ipods. I miss cd stores to and can remember a time when they were almost gone much earlier when the music industry tried to shut down all stores that were selling used cds, (which was the bread and butter of most mom and pop stores. feel free to blame some 13 year old kid for the demise of great music and brick and mortar stores, but you are just towing the company line and they don't need help |
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Posted: Jan 25, 2012 01:44 am 
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