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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Gemini Twins - too perfect? (11 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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copterchris
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Austin, Texas
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Hi all,

I've recently been revisiting "Gemini Twins" by Fulves after being reminded here of the great effect but I was wondering if it falls into the "too perfect" category? After the "prediction" cards are removed from the deck the performer doesn't touch the cards at all which, to me, reduces it to a "problem to be solved" rather than a magic effect.

I'm torn between leaving the presentation as it is, and touching the pack in some way once or twice more to sow the seeds of doubt that it isn't self-working......

I'm wondering if this doubt is just because of the magician in me though Smile

I'd be interested to hear people's views on this.

Thanks in advance,

Chris
Mark Ennis
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Raleigh, NC
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I've used this effect for years and it plays very strongly. (I perform it a bit different than the Fulves write up).

This certainly should not fall under the too perfect theory. As a matter of fact, it should be considered a miracle. The spectator has a free choice of when they will stop and since there is no sleight of hand to speak of, they should be amazed when both selections find their mates.
ME
cgscpa
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Ashton, MD
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I agree. This is a very entertaining effect as well as easy to do. I have never had it recieved as a puzzle but as a mystifying "that's impossible" reaction. I do it anytime someone hands me a deck of cards and tells me to "do something".

I recently came across a nice presentation of this effect in, of all books, "Magic for Dummies" that I purchased at a yard sale for $2.
Mark Ennis
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I love yard sale finds. You got a real good bargain for $2.
ME
cardguy
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Queens, New York
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Too Perfect?

First of all, I don't think any magic trick is "Too Perfect". If you find one, let me know cause then I want to use it.

Actually, there is a discrepency that you must hide in Gemini Twins. If you repeat the trick a couple of times, observant spectators will figure it out.

Saying that, I love this trick. It has served me well when people hand me a dog-eared deck and want to see a trick. This is the one I do, and it gets great reactions.
Frank G. a.k.a. Cardguy
sashain
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Steve Shain
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To: copterchris

I think what is bothering you about Gemini Twins is not that it is too perfect, but is the fact that there is no point that it is clear where the magic happens, a necessary "magical moment".

In Fulves description, there is only a skeleton presentation, and an attempt to explain the magic happening as telepathy. The explanation is given after the fact of pairing up the cards. Telepathy doesn't seem to fit the effect anyway - since neither of you know where the matching cards are in the deck, how could you send a signal to the spectator?

As cgscpa notes, the presentation in Magic for Dummies is better in this regard. The effect is called soul mates and the idea that each card has a soul mate is set up from the start. The effect is clearer - the cards find each other, magically guiding them to come together.

You may prefer other ways to create a magical moment, but the effect needs one.

Steve
Steve Shain
Houston, Texas
MField2000
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Actually, Gemini Twins was the opening phase of a longer Fulves routine, "Impromptu Opener," which he marketed separately and which I perform.

The second phase makes the first part more deceptive, in my opinion.

But "too perfect"? Like most card tricks aren't too perfect?

MAtt Field
Mistro
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This is a good effect. I don't use it, but I read it in the Self Working Cards book by Fulves and it sounded like a Intresting Card effect.
copterchris
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Hi all,

Thanks for your replies.

cardguy : When I said that is was "too perfect" I think we may be talking at cross-purposes. I wasn't saying that the trick was too good, just referring to the 'too perfect' theory that says (paraphrasing) :

"That if a trick is presented in a manner that has, from the spectators view, no 'possible' explanations it causes them to try to reconstruct the trick and work out how it worked."

(I probably butchered that explanation but I hope it conveys the theory)

As you noted yourself, it is not too difficult to reconstruct this trick and if I was shown such a trick where the magician does not handle the cards beyond the initial stages it would lead me to believe that it was self-working and to try reconstruct it.

I think Steve got me thinking with his reference to a "magical moment" and providing a motivation for the routine.

However, having said all that it is clear that there are many people using it to great effect. As marko suggests, maybe I should stop worrying and get on with creating a good routine Smile

Chris
lperna
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Quote:
On 2003-09-18 18:07, MField2000 wrote:
Actually, Gemini Twins was the opening phase of a longer Fulves routine, "Impromptu Opener," which he marketed separately and which I perform.

The second phase makes the first part more deceptive, in my opinion.

But "too perfect"? Like most card tricks aren't too perfect?

MAtt Field


Matt,
Do you know if this "Impromptu Opener" routine is still available for sale somewhere? Google doesn't come back with anything.

Thanks,
Lloyd
marko
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Copterchris, opinions differ but I personally wouldn't recommend putting too much stock into the Too Perfect Theory. Remember, it's our business to do the impossible.
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
NJJ
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I hate the phrase 'Too Perfect". Perfect is an ulimate state not a state of being that can be defined by degrees. Moreover, if the trick is flawed then its NOT perfect not OVER perfect.

*getting down of my soapbox*

As for Gemini Twins, if audiences are not figuring it and they are impressed by the trick then don't mess with it. Audiences are so far behind what magicians can do they won't figure it out! (although I must admit I get the feeling of "this is too easy...it MUST be obvious" all the time)

If its not as good as it might be then I wouldn't suggest adding the illusion of skill. If you want people to think your skillful then take up juggling.
Smile Smile

To make it appear more magical, I would let the cards do the work and baffle them with patter, character and strong presentation.
Hideo Kato
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I performed 'Gemini Twins' and 'Three Cards Catch' more than 100 times in last August when I demonstrated at the magic counter in the theaters Mr.Maric gave his show. I tried many presentations and handlings. I arrived at the conclusion Gemini Twins should not be done in Hands off presentation.

Gemini Twins is based on spectator's misunderstanding of the situation, or based on spectator's unclear image of the situation. So I rather proceed speedy until two face up cards are placed in the deck. Then, I take a time to review that the deck was well shuffled by the spectator and two face up cards were placed completely at random positions. Then I spread the cards and take out two pairs and proceed to show the result. All are done in my hands.

Maybe Hands off presentation would be better for a small audience.

As cgscpa and sashain pointed the importance of presentation on matching phenomenon, I think you'd better show matching pairs with an appropriate patter and/or impressive magical motion. I sometimes rubbed two cards to change face down card to match with face up card. Or you can simply admire spectator's inspration of finding matching pairs.

Anyway, Gemini Twins is not only a good impromptu trick but also one of strongest effects which I can use in my show. It depends on your presentaion.

Hideo Kato
joeKing
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I'm a little confused I thought Gemini Twins was a effect by Brother John that involved red king, red queen, black queen, and black king....and a story that goes along with it...it is on the ETMCM set...could someone clear this up for me?
~joeKing
Mark Ennis
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Joeking,

Brother Hammans trick is called "The Twins". The Karl Fulves effect (which is a double prediction) is called "The Geminii Twins".
ME
copterchris
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Austin, Texas
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Hi Hideo,

Why do you think a hands-off presentation is perhaps better for small audiences?

You imply earlier in the post that a 'hands-on' presentation is better so that you can move faster so that spectators don't have time to take everything in completely. Why would this be different for a smaller audience?

You certainly seem to have a lot of experience with this effect so I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,

Chris
Hideo Kato
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Good question, copterchris.

I said "Maybe" as I am not sure.

But my point is this. If you are performing for 2 or 3 persons, it is very easy to control spectators' mind. So slower presentation by having spectator handle the cards may be suitable. Besides, Hand-off presentation can give a more friendly atmosphere.

Anyway, I should try both presentations in personal performances. But, I have very few chance to perform for a few people.

If you have much such chances, please try both and let me know the result.

Hideo Kato
copterchris
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Austin, Texas
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Thanks Hideo, I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I'll try variations and see what the reaction is - I doubt I'll get the chance to try it 100 times in a month though Smile

Chris
Hideo Kato
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BTW, I have posted trick No.119 Quadruplets in Secret Session, which is a variation of GeminiTwins. You take out two cards of a same value to place in the deck. So you will have four of a kind at last.

BTW again, you have been mentioning Gemini Twins is created by Karl Fulves as he published it in his More Self-Working Card Tricks (Without mentioning the creator). But, Allan Ackerman in his Lasvegas Kardma says, Gemini Twins is Martin Gardner's creation.

Can anyone clarify this?

Hideo Kato
Bong780
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Toronto, Canada
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Presentation is very important here. If you rush too fast, smart people would figure the trick out (one of my gambler friend did, he's sensitive with cards). Check you patter.

Its a very strong effect and total impromptu if you present it well.
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