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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Incredibly naive question from someone who doesn't play poker for money (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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NFS
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Quote:
On 2012-01-29 06:16, AMcD wrote:
There is something we don't hear that much though, not many talk about that: champs/pro and cheating.


I have it on good authority that Stu knew about the cheating sleights but never cared to use any of it. He didn't need to.

On the other hand, I have some pretty dámning video evidence of Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson cheating by collusion at a major tournament. After I get around to editing the video and uploading it, anyone is free to PM me for a link.
"A gambler without a system is as a ship without a compass."
tommy
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Why would you want to show that?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
NFS
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I have a lot of money tied up in FTP that I'll likely never see again. I don't care much for these two individuals.
"A gambler without a system is as a ship without a compass."
silverking
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I'm not sure I'd see the need to post that video.
Like Tommy says......why?

Arnold mentioned Russ Georgiev above, and although Russ a bit crazy at times, his repeated insistence (with evidence apparently) that most, if not all of the "star" poker players cheated at one time or another, and in one form or another.......... rings with plenty of truth.
Russ passed away, and took all his information with him when he went.

I think the presumption that these poker pros (guys and gals) are inherently honest just because we see them on TV is to presume far too much.

.........in other words, no real point to posting the video......it's nothing most serious observers don't already suspect, or know happens......it's not (or shouldn't be) a surprise.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-01-29 16:00, tommy wrote:
Why would you want to show that?


Why wouldn't he?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tommy
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A fool who had money has already had his fair share of luck.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
silverking
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Sure he can post anything he wants.

I'm just surprised that anybody thinks these pros don't cheat all the time........collusion, whipsawing, playing cousins, call it what you will.........the works.

...........even on TV.
AMcD
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I myself noticed many weird behaviors on different TV shows during the last decade. Not to mention some interviews where we learn that "OK, some big names of today cheated in the past, but it was a "long" time ago, it's over now, blablabla...".

About Russ, I think he was mainly talking about a period that ended around 1980-1990 or something like that, no? I've always been amazed he didn't get sued or something of the like. In his video he names very famous players!

I can understand how NFS feels, he's been swindled after all. Nich, if you want to do something, I'm in. It's years I hate those [beep] owning online Poker websites!
silverking
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You're right Arnold, by around 1989, Russ was completely ostracized by the entire pro poker community.
As a result of being labeled as he was, he had no exposure to those kinds of games after he started speaking out about cheating.........the pro players would have nothing to do with him.

It was around that time that he went into his endless rants on the Usenet poker forum, and named pretty much everybody who was playing professionally at that time as a one-time, or current cheat.

Lest anybody that doesn't already know the story misunderstand......Russ was a bit crazy, and spoke about a lot of other things besides cheating pros, some of which made sense, and some of which made absolutely no sense at all.

But a lot of folks (even back then) felt that he knew of what he spoke when he spoke about pro poker players cheating.
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I am surprised you are surprised by their incredibly nativity and amazed you think that its OK for disgruntled suckers to come here and rat on the fraternity.

:)
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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The fraternity... You're the best, lol.
AMcD
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About Russ, just a few lines of his VHS (other guys "talking" are William Nirdlinger and John Martino):

"Russ: But Doyle was mostly playing paper and would have the floor man bring it in for him."

"John: Doyle was playing flash like Bill said in the 70's. He was playing flash in deuce to seven - they played no limit. They beat Major Riddle out of millions and millions of dollars. My percentage was 23% to 17%."

I suppose the flash he's talking about is a marking system we call the "white flash".

"Mike: So Johnny Moss was setting up...
Russ: Oh, Johnny Moss was - here - basically the whole hall of fame is the hall of shame.
Mike: Well name - who do you mean specifically? Who in the hall of fame is not?
Russ: Here. Doyle, Chip, Johnny Moss, Slim."

Amarillo Slim, Chip Reese, Doyle Brunson and Johnny Moss! Geez!!!

"Bill: Well, Stu was broke most of the time. Even when he had money he didn't have money but Chip and Doyle would give him money to sit down and play because it was good advertising."

If you have good ears (the sound is horrible) and some time to spend (the video is 4 hours long), I say it again, watch it. Even if all is not exact (who knows after all?), it's valuable. I can upload it on my website if you want.

Edit: No need to upload it, it's available from the following link:

http://www.archive.org/details/RussGeorg......ingVideo
tommy
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I think we have all lost money to the fraternity, when we were young we were all suckers. It does no good whining about it. We have to learn to “love thy enemy” and what that means is give them their due. Love the way they got your money, pay respect to that and learn from it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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Thanks for the link, Arnold.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
AMcD
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Tommy,

Yep, I've been a sucker. Been cheated at cards turned me into someone "knowledgeable" and I don't hide that's the reason why I learnt to "move" myself too. I don't complain nor whine. That's life. Let's be honest, I prefer being robbed by a run-up artist than by a stupid jerk with a gun. But talking about a fraternity is maybe too much Smile.

kevin,

You're welcome!
NFS
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The original tape is 6 hours long, unlike the 4 hour version Russ posted online that Arnold linked to. The transcripts of Russ' cheating tapes that were posted on the RGP forum are a little off and incomplete. Some good stuff is missing from the transcripts like when they're interrupting or speaking over each other. I planned on rewriting it but never got around to it.
"A gambler without a system is as a ship without a compass."
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
NFS
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Tommy I'm a bit turned off by your comments toward me. When you've been robbed and it has seriously affected your life, any man with any ounce of dignity wouldn't sit back and take it helplessly. If this is truly your philosophy then I look forward to the day I come to your club so I can have a piece.

I have no problem keeping quiet when taken by someone wittier than me. It wouldn't be the first time.

Unlike a private or underground card game where you always accept the chance of being cheated or not being paid, FTP was an establishment endorsed by several, presumably honest people, attesting to its integrity.

The lack of character by these two individuals concerning their role in FTP and lack of effort to appease the situation is far from anything resembling wit. The lack of wit these individuals have is also painfully transparent in the collusion video. It's repugnant. I have no respect for that.
"A gambler without a system is as a ship without a compass."
acesover
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He aforementioned videos seem to have disappeared. Or am I looking in the wrong place? Is this because of the Café that these videos have disappeared? Just asking...
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-01-29 17:26, tommy wrote:
I am surprised you are surprised by their incredibly nativity and amazed you think that its OK for disgruntled suckers to come here and rat on the fraternity.

:)


No honor among thieves, you know...
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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