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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tenyo of Japan » » Openly exploring all aspects of Tenyo in this forum (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

edshern
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Questions;
1-Is it ok to openly discuss the secret gimmicks of Tenyo in this forum? Is this the right place for it?
2- The secret sessions forum in the Magic Café allows open discussion. Should we do the same here.

I propose, as a suggestion only, that we open this Tenyo forum to full and free conversation about the tricks. I believe we can all have a better experience with our Tenyo tricks if we have an opportunity to openly discuss things we found or did that made the trick more (or less) successful. (I'm hoping that no one considers this as heresy & tries to hang me, as it's only a suggestion)

Here are some of my thoughts I made in another topic, copied and pasted here.

I believe that anyone who cares enough to find their way to these boards cares about magic.
They have the curiosity and drive to want to know more. They want to learn. They are the ones who want to come to your shows. They are the ones who help keep the craft alive and moving forward. Or, they are the hobbyists (like me) who just love the art, and want to know more. (I don't remember who said this but) "Knowing how the sun comes up every morning doesn't make the sunrise any less magical."
If we spend less time dancing around the gimmick, & discuss all aspects openly, I believe we can make the magic better.

Please feel free to copy and paste any comments you made on the other topic site here if you wish too.

This is just my opinion. If all disagree, I can live with that. I also don't know what management of the Café would feel about this.
J M Talbot
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Ed, for me it should be in secret sessions. Not sure why Tenyo should be treated any differently in this respect. Also not sure why we cannot have great conversations without exposing mechanical secrets. It has been done on many posts.

I admire the intent but disagree on open exposure.

John
John Mazza
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I think we should be careful talking about a tricks secret.

I don't think it is a problem if it slips out or if there is no way to get around it.

But to openly talk about secrets is not a good idea IMHO.

AA (John)
Houdini103126
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Quote:
On 2012-02-04 16:56, The Amazing Azzam wrote:
I think we should be careful talking about a tricks secret.

I don't think it is a problem if it slips out or if there is no way to get around it.

But to openly talk about secrets is not a good idea IMHO.

AA (John)


Agree
edshern
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Here are some facts worth considering:
1- I went through a number of topics and counted no more than 25-30 unique contributors to this Tenyo Board.
2- On average there are 5-8ish replies to a topic.
3- Quite often there are less than 100 views to a topic.
4- On the topics with large views, it appears that the number of contributors justifies the large number of views.

So, here is my interpretation of this;
1- The participants & viewers of this board are regulars.
2- The participants really know about Tenyo tricks & the secrets
3- If there are lurkers, they are very few (in fact that there are routinely less than 100 views to a topic and sometimes as few as 30-50)

Therefore, let's keep this conversation in perspective. We are are small community (maybe 30 people) and openly discussing the tricks and how we use them, in order to improve our handling and fun would not change the face of magic nor teach untold thousands the tricks of the trade.

Anyway, this is just my 2 cents on what I think is an interesting topic.
J M Talbot
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Ultimately I believe openly exposing secrets would be disrespectful to Tenyo themselves. Tenyo spends considerable time, effort and money on developing new methods and then the costs to develop custom tooling to produce the effects. As we know those costs need to be absorbed over a relatively small customer base. There are customers that buy Tenyo (including some of us) to learn the clever secrets behind the effects... That is part of the fun!.

Openly exposing secrets could discourage sales and in my mind cheapens the brand. There have been rumblings in the past about Tenyo placing less importance on developing new effects. As a group that greatly respects Tenyo, lets not be a contributing factor to potential lost sales or something Tenyo would frown upon.

I would be interested in the opinion of a creator such as Angelo on the idea of openly exposing Tenyo methods on this forum. Perhaps I am off base.

John
edshern
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John, not off base & point well taken.
towledge
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Café rules prohibit openly discussing secrets except in Secret Sessions. I believe this should apply to Tenyo here as well.
Inert
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Although open disclosure is a noble concept for the betterment of routining, it is impractical in reality. John makes many, many valid points. As is always the case, a few lead the majority. Those of us whom spend thousands of dollars, practice various sleight of hand, & finally, use up untold hours of thought in pursuit of better performance have no benefit except for everyome elses improvement. This is fine in itself, but ultimately, why bother? There is always a way to explain anything without exposure. If someone does not participate in general, why should they gain knowledge without effort, sharing, etc. This post is an example in itself. Something that affects everyone, yet you have received currently, but a half dozen replies. Wallflower syndrome. We have all witnessed various things on this post. Another example being Stereo's site. Everyone squawked about his arbitrarily ranking of tricks. Being the good Bloke that he is, he changed it all around to accommodate for a voting system for all. His big pay-off, he receives on average 10 or so votes to rank a trick instead of the hoped for hundreds. A man that loves his hobby & is trying to make it better for all. In most cases, zero reward except his own knowledge of a job well done. The true answer to all this... general laziness & apathy from the masses. My suggested solution, is that any specific technical question can always be answered in a private PM. To me, it is not about keeping secrets. It is about sharing to those that have illustrated due diligence.
J M Talbot
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Ultimately I believe openly exposing secrets would be disrespectful to Tenyo themselves. Tenyo spends considerable time, effort and money on developing new methods and then the costs to develop custom tooling to produce the effects. As we know those costs need to be absorbed over a relatively small customer base. There are customers that buy Tenyo (including some of us) to learn the clever secrets behind the effects... That is part of the fun!.

Openly exposing secrets could discourage sales and in my mind cheapens the brand. There have been rumblings in the past about Tenyo placing less importance on developing new effects. As a group that greatly respects Tenyo, lets not be a contributing factor to potential lost sales or something Tenyo would frown upon.

I would be interested in the opinion of a creator such as Angelo on the idea of openly exposing Tenyo methods on this forum. Perhaps I am off base.

John
J M Talbot
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Again with the double post from me. *** this new Galaxy Tab!.. Sorry guys.
John
ThatsCool
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I don't care what type of magic one is speaking about publicly.

NO reveal of how they are done.

Obvioulsy people have, and I am sure will, join the Café to see how illusions are achieved. I believe that ruins the "magic" for everyone, violates the Magicians Code, and disrespects the creators of the illusions.

I also agree with Inerts comments.
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