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kambiz
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Laurie why did you delete your post outlining suggested strategies at schools?

I glimpsed at it and wanted to have a good read now, it seemed very good, but now it's gone Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
acesover
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Laurie,

You cannot eliminate gangs from schools. But you can try and curb the violence by limiting certain things that antagonize other gangs. Also you can possibly tone down things that give gangs confidence and remove some of their identity. Something is better than nothing. Or you can just let them do as they please.

I guess the choice is in the administators hands and they will do as they see fit. Different strokes for different folks. The only thing they can probably all agree on is that gangs are not good for the students in a school. It is not the schools problem to eliminate gangs it is the shcools problem to have a safe enviornment and banning colors is definitelhy a step in the right direction. It is not a solution to the problem of gangs but rather a measure that prevents easy identification of members and helps reduce their confidence as gang members. Gangs know colors intimidate. Colors help identify individuals as a group which in effect gives them confidence and courage to carry out things they would not do on their own as an individual. But as a gang mob physcology takes over and it changes the playing field considerably.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
magicalaurie
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Quote:
On 2012-02-14 23:56, kambiz wrote:
Laurie why did you delete your post outlining suggested strategies at schools?

I glimpsed at it and wanted to have a good read now, it seemed very good, but now it's gone Smile

Kam


The whole article is available at this link, Kam. :

http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/gangs.html
mastermindreader
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Is anyone here seriously suggesting that gang colors, etc., should be PERMITTED in schools?
magicalaurie
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I'm seriously suggesting you're evading the heart of the issue. It needs addressing. You're not going to be able to remove gang colours if there are gang members that want to flash them. The form of the colours will change. The root needs to be dealt with to change the hearts and minds of the kids wearing the colours. Colours don't pull triggers, people do.

http://www.udel.edu/PR/UpDate/01/1/school.html

"Although schools frequently cite youth gangs and violence as reasons to require student uniforms, Hethorn's research has found that young people most often communicate their membership in gangs in ways that aren't easily covered by a school uniform policy. Tattoos, hand signs and body posture are more reliable signs of gang identity than what adults often believe is the case–wearing a particular color or style of clothing, she said. Her research also found that subtle clothing variations, such as wearing socks or a belt in a certain way or turning one point of a collar in or out, can be used to communicate gang membership."
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-02-14 23:30, landmark wrote:
Gangs are about belonging and the loss of community. Families and schools are a place where that community can be built--but it takes a commitment to build those institutions, and a commitment to children. In this country where we put our money where our mouth is, every budget I've seen shows children are not a major priority.


Very well said landmark Smile

Speaking from my own experience, I am currently involved extremely heavily in creating from anew communities that are sustainable, universally participatory and mutually supportive. Everyone wants to belong to something and have an identity.....my work revolves around building community identity that is solely constructive and not destructive...

The main area of attention lies with children, youth, their parents and their school teachers

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
kambiz
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 00:05, magicalaurie wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-14 23:56, kambiz wrote:
Laurie why did you delete your post outlining suggested strategies at schools?

I glimpsed at it and wanted to have a good read now, it seemed very good, but now it's gone Smile

Kam


The whole article is available at this link, Kam. :

http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/gangs.html


Thanks Laurie Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
acesover
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Laurie,

As I said before I really feel you have not experienced much of the real world. Most of your posts end or are based on a youtube vid of someone else, or a url of someone you don't even know but you found their views by googling the topic. But very little of Laurie. That does not bode well with me. It is nothing but someone elses opinion a parrot repeating what it heard,but it is not Laurie. You can say it helps fortify your opinion but truth comes from what YOU believe in not what someone tells you to believe. Remember the old addage...figures lie and liars figure. By that I mean, I or you can find enough information or disinformation dependingon how you take it on the nternet to back up any opinion. Experience life and don't live it vicarouisly through others. Then post something from Laurie not someone you don't even know.

Seems like all you do is post vids from youtube. If you recall just a short while ago when doing the bit on making a continuing story all you did was keep on posting vids and did not write anything. Reading your home page you are obvioiusly very talented individual. Use it.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
magicalaurie
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B******t! again. You don't know what is me because you don't have eyes that see.
mastermindreader
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Laurie-
Not seriously evading anything. The issue being discussed is not whether or not there are other things that need to be done to solve the problem of gangs (there are, and on that I agree with you), but whether or not gang colors should be permitted in schools. Some here seem to be taking the position that if you cannot solve ALL gang identification problems, it is "idiotic" (as Glen puts it) to ban gang attire. I disagree.
magicalaurie
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The only reason the issue is whether or not gang colors should be permitted in schools is because the OP is skipping out on the original topic of this thread.
magicalaurie
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 01:02, acesover wrote:
Laurie,

It is nothing but someone elses opinion a parrot repeating what it heard,but it is not Laurie. You can say it helps fortify your opinion but truth comes from what YOU believe in not what someone tells you to believe.


I've stated my beliefs from the top of this thread. I've provided supporting references because my opinion is obviously of little import to you. Providing supporting evidence and recommendations by experts or those with a special interest in a specific field is something people do when they expect to be taken seriously in a discussion. Schools require citations in written essays and reports. You are seriously out of line. Do you have any legitimate discussion devices at your disposal or is it all bait, switch, and tackle?
The great Gumbini
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Well I do know about gangs. I can tell you this. The reason most youths join a gang is for self-preservation. They are in a neighborhood that is run by a specific gang and you are either with them or against them. They have two options---join them or be attacked at literally every corner. It is a climate of "Might makes right". The colors come afterwards. By the time we get to a color issue (with clothing) the problem has already flourished. Yes we should take the gang colors out of the school. Yes we should attempt to stop ALL gang actions. Tagging, throwing up signs all of it---we need to get rid of it. But first we need to make our communities safe. How do we do that? The same way they do it in "Money" communities. You simply let your local governments know it will no longer be tolerated and YOU set the timetable. People think it's a tuff job to get done---it is not. You can try programs, and try all the "politically correct" ways of stopping the violence. You can wait for the next set of elections to come along and here those "It's time to get tough on crime" speech's. Or, you can simply say "Enough is enough". You set real working laws in place. If you are a gang-banger be prepared to be pulled over, stopped every chance and questioned as to why you are here and what you are doing here. If you are in a gang and you are getting in trouble it will be "Three strikes and you are IN" Yes in the Military that is. You want to fight and shoot guns and kill? We have a career waiting for you. And please I can hear some now saying "You can't do that". Yes as a matter of fact we can. We need to change our way of thinking. We need NEW and improved "programs". Remember why most join gangs-- "self preservation" and remember the motto they must live by "Might makes right" What you will find is a large majority would JUMP at the chance to be corrected if we would give them the chance. This is why so many return to prisons. They have the chance to get off the streets for a while. As one gang banger told me "In prison at least I know I won't get shot". This is also the reason so many gang-bangers will shoot a rival gang member or commit a crime against another person but will SURRENDER to a police officer. Might makes right. They UNDERSTAND this. It is time we fight these gangs with what THEY understand. Not to bully them but to let them know civil people will always have the might and they can join OUR gang any time. They need to know WE want safe streets EVERYWHERE not just in areas where it can be afforded to a select number of people. They need to know no longer will the words He (the innocent bystander) was in the wrong place at the wrong time---We are civilized people, we are never in the wrong place---THEY (the gang-bangers and people who would prey on others) are the ones who are in the wrong place at the wrong time! We need to lead by example and discipline with direction.

We have allowed too many things for too long of a time. We have allowed laws to pass that make no sense and we all know it but still allow it. What has it gotten us? It's time once and for all to let our leaders know either they stop this madness or they will be replaced by people who will. Then children can go to school knowing the "red" dress or "blue" jeans are NOT gang colors---they are their colors.


Good magic to all,


Eric
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-02-14 21:49, magicalaurie wrote:
I understood that point, Lobo. If you'll look back, you'll see Bob was mistaken in stating gdw was "obviously unaware". I'm supposed to agree with him when he was mistaken and has himself stated he missed at least one relevant post? And if I disagree I shouldn't refer to his tone because that would express a bias on my part? B******t! is obscuring the topic here, I think.


If you understood my point, you'd realize that it doesn't have to do referring to the tone of a post one disagrees with, but rather with failing to refer to the questionable tone in posts that one agrees with.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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With respect to the military suggestion, while there's no perfect solution tom gang violence, giving them guns and paying them seems, to me, not to be the least imperfect solution.

With respect to changing the hearts and minds...well, yeah, worth a try, but it's still a low percentage play. Doe it ever happen? Sure. But you're talking about a select few students who are going to renounce gang affiliation because of anything some teacher(s) said or did.

Thoughts and affiliations are one thing; for those whose gang "activities" at school are limited to those things, try to change them. For those whose activities include possession of weapons and instigating violence, I vote for streamlined expulsions and making the school a less intimidating, less threatening place for those students who want to get an education,
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 02:53, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Does it ever happen?


Sure. American History X. Big brother tells little brother he was raped in prison and he was wrong to be a Nazi. Little brother hears story and decides not to be a Nazi anymore.

Easy as pie.

Next question.

I'm here all week, folks!

Also: I'm in love with Laurie. She knows it, but I wonder whether the other NOTS regulars have figured it out yet.
Jonathan Townsend
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On 2012-02-14 23:12, magicfish wrote:
Oh Sh#t , we lost Townsend again. Its gonna be okay Jon.


Did folks get the parallel between gang colors and soft drink brands?

Hoping folks can get the questions about just who is going to teach their kids what (presumably universal) skills and at what cost (losing music and art? under the auspices of what institution? how far is that from imposing the very conditions others have fled?) is probably too much.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 01:26, magicalaurie wrote:
The only reason the issue is whether or not gang colors should be permitted in schools is because the OP is skipping out on the original topic of this thread.


Not at all - it's just some people want to believe their gang colors are more American than apple pie and more fundamentally correct, and for the good of all, than anyone else's gang colors. For such (bigots?) the urban bandanna color issue serves to keep their own issue at a distance and permit them to discuss the lives of others as if they were misguided children or chattle beasts.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 02:53, LobowolfXXX wrote:
... while there's no perfect solution tom gang violence, giving them guns and paying them seems, to me...


Which can work as long as the population of semi-domesticated bandits is kept small and there's plenty of money to pay them or enough wars to keep them distracted elsewhere - see fall of Rome.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 01:26, magicalaurie wrote:
The only reason the issue is whether or not gang colors should be permitted in schools is because the OP is skipping out on the original topic of this thread.


The whole issue is whether it is ok to condone something controversial at school such as cross dressing or wearing colors. The answer is simple. NO, it is not the time nor place for it. If you want to crossdress do it at the proper time and place, wear your colors on the street, time and place. Don't you get it? Time and place. The place is not at school so it also means it is not the proper time for thethis attire. What is so difficult to grasp about this? I am not telling any one not to crossdress or wear their colors...just not at school as it causes nothing but problems. It is definitely not conduseive to learning.

Laurie see if you can find by googling that crossing dressing at school or wearing colors has helped students get a better education. Smile While at it see if either of these has been disruptive and hindered the education process at school and report back to us. I think you know what you will find. That is what I mean by using your own common sense.

Cross dressing at school,bad idea. Wearing "gang colors" to identify oneself at school, bad idea. Why? If you have to ask no one can explain it to you.

That's my story and I am sticking to it. Voiced my opinion on this topic enough. No more comments. So fire (flame) away.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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