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rowdymagi5
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Quote:
On 2012-02-11 08:32, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-11 07:45, rowdymagi5 wrote:
People just cant let kids be kids. Really, how many elementary school kids want to crossdress? It is their parents forcing their views onto their kids. Kinda like the 8 year old with a tattoo, dad pushed that one on him. Kids don't have the ability to make adult rational decisions like we do.

How many adults do you know who would WANT their kid to cross dress, or deal with gender identity issues?
Seriously, the idea that these types of things are the parents forcing things on their children is one of the most ignorant ideas I've ever heard.


So you think that an 8 year old should be allowed to make a decision to have a tattoo? Or do you kinda maybe think possibly the parents had something to do with that?? And really, you think that elementary age kids have the capacity to want to cross dress?

that's the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-02-11 01:35, critter wrote:
Accusing someone you've never met of not caring about their kids is not cool.
At all.

I must be ****ed, I'm breaking my own rule of allowing a cooling off period before responding to some offensive internet comment.

But then, that's most likely what you were fishing for so there's another favor I've done you. I'd say you owe me two now.


Read your post of Feb 10, 2012 9:04pm. I accused you of nothing. I simp;y stated your views which was stated by your post. So get off your high horse and don't make me sound like the bad guy here. You said it,not me.

Again not fishing just stating what you posted. Is it your post?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
acesover
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Quote:
On 2012-02-11 01:52, Andrew Zuber wrote:
What's "inappropriate" in your eyes, aces, is what's appropriate for someone that is a cross dresser. As Laurie so perfectly put it, forcing them to wear the clothes that society generally deems appropriate for their gender is, in their minds, cross dressing. The time and a place argument is nonsense. Are you saying that these people are allowed to be comfortable in the privacy of their own homes, but should be forced to conform when in public to make you feel more comfortable? It's not as though they can turn these feelings on and off with a switch. It's just as important to them at school as it is at home. It has absolutely nothing to do with what's "appropriate." This isn't play time and it's not a joke to these people. It's a serious issue that can cause depression, anxiety and a number of other psychological issues.

We spend far too much time worrying about what makes US uncomfortable without putting ourself in someone else's shoes. Go back to when you were in high school, and imagine the school board requiring you to wear a dress while on school grounds. How would that have made you feel? And would you really care about whether or not it made your classmates uneasy? Because really, that would have been their problem, not yours. That's what these kids go through - society tries to force them to be something they're not, and why should society care? They're not in that person's head. They don't know what it's like, and frankly it shouldn't be any of their business. If Tommy wants to wear a dress to school because he feels more comfortable that way, who are we to tell him that's not okay?

There was a great series on the Independent Film Channel a few years backs called Transgeneration, about four different college students facing these issues. It was a moving - and very inspirational - look at the struggles they faced.


No Andrew the time and place is definitely not nonsense. It is the crutch of this whole issue. Going out socialy is perfectly acceptable for a person to CD but not to do so in a classroom. If you do not see the difference so be it. Should guys be allowed to not weaar shirts in class? Should they be allowed to go barefoot in class? However any of the aforeentioned things can be done if one wants to go to a football game or stroll in a park. Actualy probablhy prohibitted in some parks. But I think you get the drift Time and place. Time and place. Time and place.

I have nothing aganist crossdressers and have never said I do. Time and place. And I never said they had to be confined to home. I believe you brought that up.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Mr. Mystoffelees
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[quote]On 2012-02-11 04:36, magicalaurie wrote:
" I think clothes are clothes and teachers should just make sure we're wearing some. "

-------------

But why, Laurie? In for a penny, in for a pound. Let's suppose I am of American indian heritage, and my ancestors wore nothing more that a breechcloth. Why should I not be allowed to go to school this way, if the norms of society are now decided by each individual whim?

Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
acesover
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If people want to cross dress, let them. Just not in school and that is the issue here. Nothing else.

Please read the above post above. It makes so much sense and says it all.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Andrew Zuber
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Not in school. Seriously? So because it makes YOU uncomfortable to be next to a guy in a dress, let's force HIM to be uncomfortable all day, every day at school.

Makes ZERO sense. You clearly don't understand what goes on in their heads. You think thu should be forced to wear clothing for a gender they don't identify with. You can't turn these feelings on and off. If they identify with the opposite gender, they identify with it ALL DAY LONG. It has nothing to do with where they are, and it's not the school's place to say, "sorry, that's kinda weird, don't do it here." To some it might be "weird," but to them it is life altering.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
LobowolfXXX
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I find the bathroom question much more interesting. When there's a sex/gender schism, how do you evaluate the incompatibility between one's wish to use the bathroom that corresponds to his/her gender vs others' wish to use the bathroom that excludes members of the opposite sex?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
critter
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Quote:
On 2012-02-11 09:52, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-11 01:35, critter wrote:
Accusing someone you've never met of not caring about their kids is not cool.
At all.

I must be ****ed, I'm breaking my own rule of allowing a cooling off period before responding to some offensive internet comment.

But then, that's most likely what you were fishing for so there's another favor I've done you. I'd say you owe me two now.


Read your post of Feb 10, 2012 9:04pm. I accused you of nothing. I simp;y stated your views which was stated by your post. So get off your high horse and don't make me sound like the bad guy here. You said it,not me.

Again not fishing just stating what you posted. Is it your post?


There's a difference between what a person says and how they say it.
I answered you question in a straightforward way, you chose to spin. Your response to my final answer alone would be only slightly ******y, but when you connect all of your responses together it tells quite a different story.
You straight up attacked my parenting. There's no way to wiggle out of it.
And then you have the gall to go on about inappropriate behavior.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2012-02-11 08:52, kambiz wrote:
Sometimes I get the urge to go out naked, however, through education I have learnt that it is disrespecting the nobility of my humanity to do so.


Many tribal cultures wear nothing/next-to-nothing when out and about; the alleged 'nobility of their humanity' doesn't suffer in the least.

As with many issues, the real problem is often based on our attempts to force meaning on a universe that has none.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-02-11 11:34, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-11 08:52, kambiz wrote:
Sometimes I get the urge to go out naked, however, through education I have learnt that it is disrespecting the nobility of my humanity to do so.


Many tribal cultures wear nothing/next-to-nothing when out and about; the alleged 'nobility of their humanity' doesn't suffer in the least.

As with many issues, the real problem is often based on our attempts to force meaning on a universe that has none.


That's absurd!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
critter
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Quote:
On 2012-02-11 11:27, critter wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-11 09:52, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-11 01:35, critter wrote:
Accusing someone you've never met of not caring about their kids is not cool.
At all.

I must be ****ed, I'm breaking my own rule of allowing a cooling off period before responding to some offensive internet comment.

But then, that's most likely what you were fishing for so there's another favor I've done you. I'd say you owe me two now.


Read your post of Feb 10, 2012 9:04pm. I accused you of nothing. I simp;y stated your views which was stated by your post. So get off your high horse and don't make me sound like the bad guy here. You said it,not me.

Again not fishing just stating what you posted. Is it your post?


There's a difference between what a person says and how they say it.
I answered you question in a straightforward way, you chose to spin. Your response to my final answer alone would be only slightly ******y, but when you connect all of your responses together it tells quite a different story.
You straight up attacked my parenting. There's no way to wiggle out of it.
And then you have the gall to go on about inappropriate behavior.


Had to take off for a minute. Let me elaborate.
I suspect some of my interpretation has been blown out of proportion by the limited medium of the internet.
I deliberately kept my answers short in the good faith of the "just askin'" condition. Since I assumed you really were "just askin'" I chose to invoke the "just answerin'" clause.
So I kept them short and simple so as not to make any allusions to your own beliefs or to end up attacking them.
But in your responses you chose to throw in "WOW!s" and "LOL's" and "You're kidding right?s"

Simply put: You asked, I responded, you mocked and derided my responses.
Like it or not, that does make you the bad guy.
There's an old saying: "If you never cheat, you never have to worry about getting caught."
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
gdw
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Quote:
On 2012-02-11 09:30, rowdymagi5 wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-11 08:32, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-11 07:45, rowdymagi5 wrote:
People just cant let kids be kids. Really, how many elementary school kids want to crossdress? It is their parents forcing their views onto their kids. Kinda like the 8 year old with a tattoo, dad pushed that one on him. Kids don't have the ability to make adult rational decisions like we do.

How many adults do you know who would WANT their kid to cross dress, or deal with gender identity issues?
Seriously, the idea that these types of things are the parents forcing things on their children is one of the most ignorant ideas I've ever heard.


So you think that an 8 year old should be allowed to make a decision to have a tattoo? Or do you kinda maybe think possibly the parents had something to do with that?? And really, you think that elementary age kids have the capacity to want to cross dress?

that's the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.


I'm, big difference between "allowing" a kid to get a tattoo, and "forcing their views" onto them, pushing then to get a tattoo. The same with gender identity.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
critter
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Aces: Given the conditions of the internet medium I do apologize for the severity of my initial replies.
However, I still think you were in the wrong and crossed the line, for reasons stated in my last post.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
critter
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Quote:
On 2012-02-11 10:59, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I find the bathroom question much more interesting. When there's a sex/gender schism, how do you evaluate the incompatibility between one's wish to use the bathroom that corresponds to his/her gender vs others' wish to use the bathroom that excludes members of the opposite sex?



I tend to side with the typical legal definition of gender. But my personal feelings are that gender should be a full time thing.
That's not the same as fashion. A guy in a dress is still a guy and should still use the guy's facilities.
But if it's a person who truly does identify entirely with the opposite gender from their biological one then I have no problem with them being treated as such.

But then the question comes up: What about those who, for reasons of biological uniqueness, identify with neither? I'm talking about actual biology here, not a mental thing.
In short:
Should intersexed individuals have their own bathrooms?
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
stoneunhinged
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In Germany it's very common for women to use the men's stalls in places likes sports arenas. You know how it usually is: men go to the urinals and get out quick, while women wait in long lines. Not here. They line up at the stalls in both the men's rooms and the women's rooms.

Also, in Germany most cleaning people are women, and they feel free to clean the men's room while men are present.

In other words, I'm used to women being present when I pee.

Doesn't bother me any.

I'm not sure I have a point.
Mystification
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Its getting pretty weird in here! Now I know what my dad meant when he said the whole world has gone to hell!
stoneunhinged
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Did your dad live in Germany?

LOL!
Josh the Superfluous
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I think student to teacher ratios should be small enough, so teachers and parents can come to an agreement on how each situation should be handled in the child's best interest.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2
Destiny
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Quote:
On 2012-02-11 08:52, kambiz wrote:

When I was younger I had the urge to have sex with as many girls as I could possibly muster, however I resisted the urge to do so, because I believe sex is between a couple who love each other within a marital institution.

As parents it is imperative to educate our children regarding the nobility of what it means to be human, and how it is natural to get "urges" and provide the child with tools to resist them and to rise above them....

......the rest can be worked out for yourselves Smile

Kam


What I can work out for myself is that you are no more noble than the guy who had lots of fun following his urges with consenting women with complimentary 'urges'. If you are suggesting as it seems that you have risen 'higher' as a human because you have chosen a monogamous heterosexual union, I don't know why you left Iran and came to Australia.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2012-02-11 13:07, Destiny wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-11 08:52, kambiz wrote:

When I was younger I had the urge to have sex with as many girls as I could possibly muster, however I resisted the urge to do so, because I believe sex is between a couple who love each other within a marital institution.

As parents it is imperative to educate our children regarding the nobility of what it means to be human, and how it is natural to get "urges" and provide the child with tools to resist them and to rise above them....

......the rest can be worked out for yourselves Smile

Kam


What I can work out for myself is that you are no more noble than the guy who had lots of fun following his urges with consenting women with complimentary 'urges'. If you are suggesting as it seems that you have risen 'higher' as a human because you have chosen a monogamous heterosexual union, I don't know why you left Iran and came to Australia.


:thumbsup:
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
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