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tommy
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Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
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When we are all on rations, and we will be, fun will not be allowed.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2......res.html
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Tom Cutts
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Staff
Northern CA
5833 Posts

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Sorry to hear you need government assistance to cover your expenses at "strip clubs, liquor stores, daiquiri shops and gambling outlets.".
gdw
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I find it rather ironic that they want to legislate you be responsible with what is the result then taking over responsibilities. The more the government takes "responsibility" for, the less responsible you will find the people to be. Makes sense, if someone/thing is taking over responsibilities from people, why would you expect said people to become anything but less responsible themselves?

Of course I can see why they would want to control what people are doing with their "assistance."
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
mastermindreader
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Seattle, WA
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This legislation is political posturing designed to characterize those on assistance as being gamblers, strip club patrons, etc., despite the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever to support that notion. It is really no different than the drug testing requirement that they recently instituted in Florida, only to find that those receiving assistance actually tested positive far LESS than those who were not. (Tellingly, many legislators in other jurisdictions withdrew their support for such a law when it was amended to required that elected officials- also recipients of government funds - likewise be subjected to drug tests.)

Just another rather transparent effort to marginalize the poor.
Marlin1894
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Quote:
On 2012-02-14 11:35, mastermindreader wrote:
This legislation is political posturing designed to characterize those on assistance as being gamblers, strip club patrons, etc., despite the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever to support that notion. Just another rather transparent effort to marginalize the poor.


Yes there is. A lot of this is coming out of what happened in California. It was a very small percentage of the total benefits being paid out but it was happening. Closing the loophole kind of seems like a no brainer. Whats wrong with taking small steps to clean things up? Whether you are in favor of increasing welfare spending, or decreasing it, you ought to be in favor of stopping waste and abuse of the system.

Marginalize the poor.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2012-02-14 11:35, mastermindreader wrote:
This legislation is political posturing designed to characterize those on assistance as being gamblers, strip club patrons, etc., despite the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever to support that notion. It is really no different than the drug testing requirement that they recently instituted in Florida, only to find that those receiving assistance actually tested positive far LESS than those who were not. (Tellingly, many legislators in other jurisdictions withdrew their support for such a law when it was amended to required that elected officials- also recipients of government funds - likewise be subjected to drug tests.)

Just another rather transparent effort to marginalize the poor.


:thumbsup: Sort of. There certainly IS evidence of people on assistance abusing it. That doesn't mean they all are.

Also I imagine many of those receiving assistance can't afford many drugs besides alcohol and tobacco, and maybe marijuana, which, as I understand it, it quite easy to manage to test clean on. I wonder what the results would be like if they were looking at alcohol and cigarettes, relative to the rest of the public?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
mastermindreader
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Please provide evidence that this is a significant problem that needs to be addressed. It seems like some legislators happened to notice that there were ATM machines in strip clubs, casinos, etc. (they probably saw them while they were patronizing the places) and, when they realized that "food stamps" were debit cards decided that here was another way to demonize the poor.

Reminds me a lot of the "welfare queen" canard that was used as a wedge issue in the 80's, and the recent ridiculous assertion by one who will remain unnamed, that people were using assistance money to fly to Hawaii for vacations.
Marlin1894
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Why does it have to be a "significant" problem before anything is done about it. Ok, so mabybe it was only a couple of million bucks that was drawn out of casino ATMs in CA. Still, that not how the money is supposed to be used. So they fixed it. What's the big deal? You think coming out against something as simple as this makes you some sort of champion for the poor or something?
mastermindreader
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You appear to have missed the entire point of my post. These are simply political devices being used as wedge issues. That's what I'm against.
Dennis Michael
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You really think it will stop it?
Dennis Michael
gdw
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All I said was that there is evidence of people abusing assistance. One can't deny that. Wasn't saying it was a significant problem than needs to be addressed, though I would say that denying abuses of assistance, or denying it is to a level worth addressing, is naive.

Of course I'm sure you know my position on the problems extends to well before the recipients are in a position to "abuse" anything. Any such "abuses" are merely symptoms of the root problems.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
kambiz
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Perth, down by the cool of the pool
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Yet another example of cleaning up the symptoms yet letting the core disease just fester on and on.....definitely not a sustainable solution to the problem

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
rockwall
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I think that the idea of banning gang colors is simply political posturing designed to characterize those going to our public schools as being gang members, bangers, etc., despite the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever to support that notion. If anyone to research it they would find that those going to school are involved in gangs far LESS than those who were not.
mastermindreader
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Before calling the banning of gang colors "political posturing" you may want to review some of the evidence that you claim is non-existant:

http://www.keepschoolssafe.org/school/gangs.htm

There are hundreds of other supportive links. Just Google "gang colors public schools."
GlenD
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If indeed we are all headed towards being completely dependent on government then we have much bigger things to worry about than spending rules.
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
gdw
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Quote:
On 2012-02-14 17:31, kambiz wrote:
Yet another example of cleaning up the symptoms yet letting the core disease just fester on and on.....definitely not a sustainable solution to the problem

Kam


You mean like banning gang colours?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2012-02-14 18:11, mastermindreader wrote:
Before calling the banning of gang colors "political posturing" you may want to review some of the evidence that you claim is non-existant:

http://www.keepschoolssafe.org/school/gangs.htm

There are hundreds of other supportive links. Just Google "gang colors public schools."


I'm guessing you missed the lampooning there. I could be wrong, but I doubt he actually thinks there is no evidence.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
mastermindreader
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Seattle, WA
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I caught the lampooning and chose to ignore it because he was making an apples and oranges comparison to my post. No one, to my knowledge, has ever tried to characterize all public school students as gang members. Many, however, have attempted to create political wedge issues by introducing legislation designed to mis-characterize and marginalize the poor.
LobowolfXXX
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La Famiglia
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I don't think anyone has tried to characterize all people on public assistance as drug users, gamblers, or strip club patrons, either; some DO, though, characterize those who ARE as having possibly enough uhhhh discretionary income as to perhaps need less assistance than previously thought.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
kambiz
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Perth, down by the cool of the pool
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Quote:
On 2012-02-14 19:13, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-14 17:31, kambiz wrote:
Yet another example of cleaning up the symptoms yet letting the core disease just fester on and on.....definitely not a sustainable solution to the problem

Kam


You mean like banning gang colours?



LOL....well now that you have clarified what you exactly mean in the other thread, YES, I would agree with you...(on both of these threads)

However, I would go on to say that banning colours is definitelt "part" of the solution, but most definitely NOT amongst the first steps that need to be taken...


Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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