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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » "Medical Intuitives"? Fact , Fiction or Dangerous? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 10:30, Slim King wrote:
When Science FAILS... Do you condemn those who look elsewhere?

Only if they refuse to pay me to perform my magic healing dance. Smile

BTW What does this topic have to do with mentalism?
Jon_Thompson
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Darkest Cheshire
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 10:30, Slim King wrote:
When Science FAILS... Do you condemn those who look elsewhere?

Why the capitals, dude? The word "science" is not a well defined term. It's like saying "sports". I wouldn't expect a golfer to score a touchdown the same as I wouldn't expect a geologist to make advances in genetics.

If all rational medical help has been exhausted then I would never condemn anyone who looks elsewhere, no matter how much woo hoo I think they're getting into. But only after all possible rational help is gone. What I do strenuously condemn and despise is people who deliberately lead gravely ill patients away from receiving an available treatment known to either prolong life long enough to make your peace and say goodbye, or even to manage an otherwise deadly condition. That, to me, is nothing short of manslaughter.

I feel quite strongly about this. Can you tell? Smile
David Numen
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My mother-in-law died from breast cancer and the various treatments last year. We learnt too late of a guy promoting the use of cannibis oil as a treatment for cancer. We did get it for her but by the time we sorted some out she was already on the way out. Anyway there is a significant lack of interest from the scientific community in researching the veracity of this possible treatment. Indeed an american legal friend advises that whilst Universities will fund research into the effects of all manner of illegal narcotics, research into cannabis is strictly forbidden. You gotta wonder. Certainly mainstream "science" has failed there.
Randwill
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 11:43, David Numen wrote:
My mother-in-law died from breast cancer and the various treatments last year. We learnt too late of a guy promoting the use of cannibis oil as a treatment for cancer.


Did you have any reason to believe that "cannibis" oil is an effective treatment for breast cancer?
Slim King
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Eternal Order
Orlando
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There is a lot of reason to expect some success fron this oil. But since you could grow and make it yourself for a few cents... the government prevents you.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 05:33, Jon_Thompson wrote:
"Healers" ultimately rob the terminally ill of time.


Wow! Class thousands of people into a single group and denounce them all without any documentation.

Fascinating...
Jon_Thompson
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 11:43, David Numen wrote:
My mother-in-law died from breast cancer and the various treatments last year. We learnt too late of a guy promoting the use of cannibis oil as a treatment for cancer. We did get it for her but by the time we sorted some out she was already on the way out. Anyway there is a significant lack of interest from the scientific community in researching the veracity of this possible treatment. Indeed an american legal friend advises that whilst Universities will fund research into the effects of all manner of illegal narcotics, research into cannabis is strictly forbidden. You gotta wonder. Certainly mainstream "science" has failed there.

In the UK, cannabis research is not only allowed, it's been going for abut 15 years or so. If I remember correctly, cannabinoids are used in oral preparations to reduce nausea in chemotherapy patients. I think GW Pharma is the main player. If you're n the US, you need a better government that isn't in thrall to big business interests at the expense of millions of innocent lives.

I feel quite strongly about this, too! Smile
Jon_Thompson
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 12:46, dmkraig wrote:

Wow! Class thousands of people into a single group and denounce them all without any documentation.

Fascinating...

You have my reasoning above.
Randwill
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 13:18, Jon_Thompson wrote:

In the UK, cannabis research is not only allowed, it's been going for abut 15 years or so. If I remember correctly, cannabinoids are used in oral preparations to reduce nausea in chemotherapy patients. I think GW Pharma is the main player. If you're n the US, you need a better government that isn't in thrall to big business interests at the expense of millions of innocent lives.



Reducing nausea in chemotherapy patients and curing cancers are two different things. If there is evidence that cannabis can cure cancer it seems strange that American pharmacology concerns aren't investing heavily in research for this potential gold mine to them.
Sean Giles
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 10:30, Slim King wrote:
When Science FAILS... Do you condemn those who look elsewhere?


I wouldn't condemn those that look elsewhere as they are just, out of desperation, willing to try anything. I condemn those that target these truly vulnerable people for a few bucks and a boost to their ego. That is unforgivable.
And what of the people that seek out these 'healers' INSTEAD of getting proper treatment? What happens to them when it fails? That's playing with peoples lives...
PhiltheBear
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I'm not sure about 'healers' but it is my opinion (just that - an opinion) that they are just about as successful as Chinese Medicine. In a lot of cases the 'healer' is simply providing a placebo effect. Apparently, on the wads of research done on this in many fields of medicine 35% or more of patients suffering from chronic conditions can have some or all of their symptoms alleviated through the use of placebos. It’s even been shown, by a study at Harvard University in 2010, that even if the patient knows they are receiving a placebo – the effect remains as strong. Their study on sufferers of Irritable Bowel Syndrome was surprising in two ways – one, despite the patient’s understanding that they were receiving a clearly marked placebo and being told that they were being treated with something that had no active ingredients whatsoever – many of them improved. And two, the placebo beat the actual treatment for IBS in terms of performance. That’s right not only did it make people feel better but it actually worked better than the real medicine.

It's my opinion that a similar effect is produced by a 'healer'. My only problem is where a 'healer' tells the patient to stop conventional medicine. In a lot of cases the 'healer' then becomes a 'killer'.
--

PhiltheBear
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innercirclewannabe
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Jon Thompson wrote:


If all rational medical help has been exhausted then I would never condemn anyone who looks elsewhere, no matter how much woo hoo I think they're getting into. But only after all possible rational help is gone. What I do strenuously condemn and despise is people who deliberately lead gravely ill patients away from receiving an available treatment known to either prolong life long enough to make your peace and say goodbye, or even to manage an otherwise deadly condition. That, to me, is nothing short of manslaughter.

:applause: I agree 100%.
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
David Numen
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The placebo effect is most interesting and I have read that there have been studies that show not only does the patients belief affect the outcome of a drug/placebo BUT the belief of the doctors can influence the effect.
David Numen
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Quote:
On 2012-02-15 13:29, Randwill wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-15 13:18, Jon_Thompson wrote:

In the UK, cannabis research is not only allowed, it's been going for abut 15 years or so. If I remember correctly, cannabinoids are used in oral preparations to reduce nausea in chemotherapy patients. I think GW Pharma is the main player. If you're n the US, you need a better government that isn't in thrall to big business interests at the expense of millions of innocent lives.



Reducing nausea in chemotherapy patients and curing cancers are two different things. If there is evidence that cannabis can cure cancer it seems strange that American pharmacology concerns aren't investing heavily in research for this potential gold mine to them.


This isn't about relieving nausea - it's using the oil from the buds as a CURE. I can't vouch for the veracity only that there is quite a lot online about this.

Scientists in Spain did tests on it and their studies indicated brain tumours in rats shrunk.

As to pharmacology...this is an oil extracted from a plant. They cannot copyright/trademark that which is what some believe is the reason why studies aren't allowed.
Tony Iacoviello
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They are very dangerous!

I have a small circle of friends who are constantly telling me to give up my reliance on western medicine and see this or that healer. I'm so tired of listening to these people criticize me and my closed mindedness when it comes to my health, I just want to strangle them and send them to their own healers to be fixed.

Dangerous, yes, dangerous to their supporters who might harass me.

Tony
Alan Munro
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Many of the "accepted" medical treatments have success rates no better than a placebo. Placebos work, sometimes. When I was undergoing treatment for a life-threatening illness, decades ago, it became abundantly clear that "medical science" wasn't much better than hiring a witchdoctor. I take better care of myself, now, and many of the things that the medical community doesn't see value in are the things that have made a huge difference in improving my health. I used to be on 4 expensive prescriptions, on a regular basis. Now I have no need for prescriptions.
Mind Guerrilla
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Again I ask "What does this topic have to do with mentalism?"

These medical intuitives don't consider themselves to be psychic entertainers, do they?
Randwill
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This section, despite the description provided by the management, seems to have turned into more of a forum for members with a common interest in mentalism to discuss anything remotely connected to the paranormal.
Gerry Hennessey
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Thank you moderators for redirecting this.

And thank you posters for your extremely valuable opinions and input.

Regards & thanks

Gerry
"Every discipline effects every other discipline. You can't straighten out the corporation if your closet is a mess" Jim Rohn

GerryHennessey.com
docsteve
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The other factor we have to take into account is "regression to the mean".

Most chronic pains and chronic illnesses have relapsing and remitting patterns; often when a patient decides to seek advice elsewhere, they are at a bad extreme. The only possible outcomes are it either gets worse or better in the perception of the patient. If you at any extreme, then obviously you tend to swing towards the opposite side.

Of all our symptoms, the one that responds to suggestion best is pain; even in poor hypnotic subjects (so called). That's a simple fact well known in traditional western medicine. A true "healer" should be able to produce structural change; it would be difficult in this case to comment without a series of x rays whether a structural change has occurred.

Finally, in science we know that you cannot prove a negative; all you can do is collect data which add to one's hypothesis. The scientific paradigm of positivism - the belief that the truth is out there, independently existing, waiting to be uncovered by experiment and scientific method - is only one of many paradigms, that may be or may not be applicable to a particular field. Perceptions of pain, illness, etc may be better catered for in other paradigms, such as interpretivism, etc etc.

Gerry, I'm glad your lady got better.
S
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